What Is The Politic Of Riding?

Mike Greenwald is a faithful reader whose thoughtful comments have appeared under many of my posts. Today, he asks you a question hoping to open with all of you a new positive debate.
“During many years of riding, I have seen many states and many countries.  I have ridden bikes of all sorts and I have crossed through many communities and communities of riders.  Many riders live many different lifestyles. Some of us are paid by other riders, and some of us pay other riders. Some of us vote and others choose to abstain. Some of us are hell bent on the freedoms of riding and for others riding is just something to do. Many of us have used a body politic or body English to help us through a tough situation and others of us have used the politic of government or politic of negotiation. Some might say that the politic of riding is all of that and more.
I have asked this question to many riders and non-riders. What is the politic of riding?” (Mike Greenwald)


24 Responses to “What Is The Politic Of Riding?”

  1. 1 Troy Jun 5th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    I don’t know if I know what the politics of riding is. I do know that I started out on a Cushman scooter about 45 years ago. Since then I have ridden many different bikes, paid other riders, gotten paid by other riders, and met many riders. The one thing that we all have in common is we really enjoy the freedom of riding, and we all are adrenaline junkies. Everyone I have met loves to grab a handfull of throttle every now and then and get pushed back in the seat or lift a wheel for awhile and feel the power, danger and exileration of knowing that you could be gone in a heartbeat. Riders love the sound of loud pipes and thumping engines which to some of us is another adrenaline buzz. Most people who have been riding for a long time have had their share of broken bones and back injuries which they will gladly tell you about. Some prefer gangs, others are loners or have a group of friends that they ride with, they all come together at bike shows and rallies, get along and talk about bikes. I built a custom for a friend who’s wife was from Finland. When he came to pick it up, I started it for him, the 124 c. i. was thumping and the pipes were rocking. After I shut it down, his wife looked at me and said, “The only place you could ride that bike in Finland is in your back yard.” I told her , ” That’s why we don’t live in Finland.” Most of us ride Harley’s, choppers, dirt bikes and crouch rockets, and we wouldn’t have it any other way. We don’t see the need for it to be stated in the Constitution that we have the freedom to ride, we ride and nobody is going to take that freedom from us because that’s one of those things we will fight for. I feel that most riders are a very friendly bunch and are good people. They are much more aware of the traffic around them and the stupid things that people do in automobiles. The only thing I would like the government to do is stay out of our business and pass a law that makes everyone who applies for a drivers license to also pass the motorcycle riding test. Then maybe a few people would see what we’re up against.

  2. 2 Dave B. Jun 5th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    This is being overthought… get on your bike (whatever brand or type you have), ride with a group or alone, wave or don’t wave to other riders, who cares? JUST RIDE.
    Car drivers don’t care, lawywers don’t care, lawmakers don’t care, & politicians don’t care, so get over it already. JUST RIDE.
    If you are waiting for the non-riding world to give a damn about us you are waiting in vain, and why does everyone here always think the government wants to eliminate motorcycles? They don’t.
    In fact they don’t care about us at all, and again, so what?
    Fuck politics, and politicians. JUST RIDE.

  3. 3 Chopperdave Jun 5th, 2008 at 11:24 pm

    Yeah, what Dave B. said.

  4. 4 madpuppy Jun 6th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Political Correctness Sucks ! PS., and what Chopperdave said.

  5. 5 rodent Jun 6th, 2008 at 9:39 am

    Dave b is right….f**k it just ride
    and “screw it, let’s do it” is a book by Sir Richard Branson.not by the brain drains in middle America

  6. 6 tehiv Jun 6th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    Agreed with the 4 above. K.I.S.S. theory applies.

  7. 7 Mike Greenwald Jun 7th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    I think keeping it simple is right on track. How do we legislate that?

  8. 8 Dave B. Jun 8th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    I think we have been over-legislated already. Let’s keep it simple by leaving it alone before they make it worse.

  9. 9 Mike Greenwald Jun 8th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    DavB, You are exactly right. The legislation I would be in favor of enacting would be one that removes restriction and blame from the motorcyclist because they are riding on two or three wheels. I am finished with the bully tactics of government with regards to motorcyclists.

    I read a very disturbing article entitled California Holds First-Ever Motorcycle Safety Summit


    The ideas generated by the federal and state think-tank wreaks of oppressive control over the subjects of a tyrannical government. Should we interpret your publication of this roadmap for an Orwellian society a sign of your acceptance, that you oppose liberty of the masses, and are in agreement with totalitarianism? I hope not.

  10. 10 Dave B. Jun 8th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    After quickly reviewing the documents you pointed to, I see nothing surprising in them… If someone wants to ride 100 MPH in heavy traffic, rides under the influence, etc, they deserve to get cited/jailed or their bike impounded. As far as lane sharing, I think it is unwise and don’t care if they outlaw it or not, helmet laws are an eventual reality everywhere and we’ve all seen it coming for years whether we like it or not. In fact, the suggestions, that is SUGGESTIONS, NOT LAWS, in the documents are obvious knee-jerk reactions from the organizations listed, no one should be surprised. You should also not be surprised that 99% of the suggestions will never become laws or even rules, as it would cost too much money… you may however expect a rise in insurance premiums, especially for high risk or inexperienced riders.
    Basically, none of the stuff in the documents listed apply to, or incumber a responsible rider, only high risk ones, and I wouldn’t miss them on the road any more than a minivan driving soccer mom with a cell phone jammed in her ear.
    Fear of an Orwellian government wanting to contol motorcycles is just a lot of misspent energy, the government doesn’t care about us at all, they never have. They only hold conferences like this to win political face within their constituancies to make them feel something is being done to protect the world from the evil & dangerous bikers on the road… political bullshit is all it really is. Don’t fear this garbage, it is merely a distraction, not totalitaranism. Lets put some of this gusto into raising money for St Jude Hospital, Habitat for Humanity, Jerry’s Kids, or something worthy, not whether or not we might one day have to wear gloves or approved riding boots. Check the paranoia and JUST RIDE.

  11. 11 Mike Greenwald Jun 9th, 2008 at 7:15 am

    Not having been at the “summit”, I have no idea if the Delphi Technique was used. Nevertheless, everyone should know about it if they don’t already. Check it out:

    Using the Delphi Technique to Achieve Consensus
    How it is leading us away from representative government to an illusion of citizen participation
    The Delphi Technique and consensus building are both founded in the same principle – the Hegelian dialectic of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis, with synthesis becoming the new thesis. The goal is a continual evolution to “oneness of mind” (consensus means solidarity of belief) -the collective mind, the wholistic society, the wholistic earth, etc. In thesis and antithesis, opinions or views are presented on a subject to establish views and opposing views. In synthesis, opposites are brought together to form the new thesis. All participants in the process are then to accept ownership of the new thesis and support it, changing their views to align with the new thesis. Through a continual process of evolution, “oneness of mind” will supposedly occur.

    In group settings, the Delphi Technique is an unethical method of achieving consensus on controversial topics. It requires well-trained professionals, known as “facilitators” or “change agents,” who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against another to make a preordained viewpoint appear “sensible,” while making opposing views appear ridiculous.

    In her book Educating for the New World Order, author and educator Beverly Eakman makes numerous references to the need of those in power to preserve the illusion that there is “community participation in decision-making processes, while in fact lay citizens are being squeezed out.”

    The setting or type of group is immaterial for the success of the technique. The point is that, when people are in groups that tend to share a particular knowledge base, they display certain identifiable characteristics, known as group dynamics, which allows the facilitator to apply the basic strategy.

    The facilitators or change agents encourage each person in a group to express concerns about the programs, projects, or policies in question. They listen attentively, elicit input from group members, form “task forces,” urge participants to make lists, and in going through these motions, learn about each member of a group. They are trained to identify the “leaders,” the “loud mouths,” the “weak or non-committal members,” and those who are apt to change sides frequently during an argument.

    Suddenly, the amiable facilitators become professional agitators and “devil’s advocates.” Using the “divide and conquer” principle, they manipulate one opinion against another, making those who are out of step appear “ridiculous, unknowledgeable, inarticulate, or dogmatic.” They attempt to anger certain participants, thereby accelerating tensions. The facilitators are well trained in psychological manipulation. They are able to predict the reactions of each member in a group. Individuals in opposition to the desired policy or program will be shut out.

    The Delphi Technique works. It is very effective with parents, teachers, school children, and community groups. The “targets” rarely, if ever, realize that they are being manipulated. If they do suspect what is happening, they do not know how to end the process. The facilitator seeks to polarize the group in order to become an accepted member of the group and of the process. The desired idea is then placed on the table and individual opinions are sought during discussion. Soon, associates from the divided group begin to adopt the idea as if it were their own, and they pressure the entire group to accept their proposition.

    How the Delphi Technique Works

    Consistent use of this technique to control public participation in our political system is causing alarm among people who cherish the form of government established by our Founding Fathers. Efforts in education and other areas have brought the emerging picture into focus.

    In the not-too-distant past, the city of Spokane, in Washington state, hired a consultant to the tune of $47,000 to facilitate the direction of city government. This development brought a hue and cry from the local population. The ensuing course of action holds an eerie similarity to what is happening in education reform. A newspaper editorial described how groups of disenfranchised citizens were brought together to “discuss” what they felt needed to be changed at the local government level. A compilation of the outcomes of those “discussions” influenced the writing of the city/county charter.

    That sounds innocuous. But what actually happened in Spokane is happening in communities and school districts all across the country. Let’s review the process that occurs in these meetings.

    First, a facilitator is hired. While his job is supposedly neutral and non-judgmental, the opposite is actually true. The facilitator is there to direct the meeting to a preset conclusion.

    The facilitator begins by working the crowd to establish a good-guy-bad-guy scenario. Anyone disagreeing with the facilitator must be made to appear as the bad guy, with the facilitator appearing as the good guy. To accomplish this, the facilitator seeks out those who disagree and makes them look foolish, inept, or aggressive, which sends a clear message to the rest of the audience that, if they don’t want the same treatment, they must keep quiet. When the opposition has been identified and alienated, the facilitator becomes the good guy – a friend – and the agenda and direction of the meeting are established without the audience ever realizing what has happened.

    Next, the attendees are broken up into smaller groups of seven or eight people. Each group has its own facilitator. The group facilitators steer participants to discuss preset issues, employing the same tactics as the lead facilitator.

    Participants are encouraged to put their ideas and disagreements on paper, with the results to be compiled later. Who does the compiling? If you ask participants, you typically hear: “Those running the meeting compiled the results.” Oh-h! The next question is: “How do you know that what you wrote on your sheet of paper was incorporated into the final outcome?” The typical answer is: “Well, I’ve wondered about that, because what I wrote doesn’t seem to be reflected. I guess my views were in the minority.”

    That is the crux of the situation. If 50 people write down their ideas individually, to be compiled later into a final outcome, no one knows what anyone else has written. That the final outcome of such a meeting reflects anyone’s input at all is highly questionable, and the same holds true when the facilitator records the group’s comments on paper. But participants in these types of meetings usually don’t question the process.

    Why hold such meetings at all if the outcomes are already established? The answer is because it is imperative for the acceptance of the School-to-Work agenda, or the environmental agenda, or whatever the agenda, that ordinary people assume ownership of the preset outcomes. If people believe an idea is theirs, they’ll support it. If they believe an idea is being forced on them, they’ll resist.

    The Delphi Technique is being used very effectively to change our government from a representative form in which elected individuals represent the people, to a “participatory democracy” in which citizens selected at large are facilitated into ownership of preset outcomes. These citizens believe that their input is important to the result, whereas the reality is that the outcome was already established by people not apparent to the participants.

    How to Diffuse the Delphi Technique

    Three steps can diffuse the Delphi Technique as facilitators attempt to steer a meeting in a specific direction.

    1. Always be charming, courteous, and pleasant. Smile. Moderate your voice so as not to come across as belligerent or aggressive.

    2. Stay focused. If possible, jot down your thoughts or questions. When facilitators are asked questions they don’t want to answer, they often digress from the issue that was raised and try instead to put the questioner on the defensive. Do not fall for this tactic. Courteously bring the facilitator back to your original question. If he rephrases it so that it becomes an accusatory statement (a popular tactic), simply say, “That is not what I asked. What I asked was . . .” and repeat your question.

    3. Be persistent. If putting you on the defensive doesn’t work, facilitators often resort to long monologues that drag on for several minutes. During that time, the group usually forgets the question that was asked, which is the intent. Let the facilitator finish. Then with polite persistence state: “But you didn’t answer my question. My question was . . .” and repeat your question.

    Never become angry under any circumstances. Anger directed at the facilitator will immediately make the facilitator the victim. This defeats the purpose. The goal of facilitators is to make the majority of the group members like them, and to alienate anyone who might pose a threat to the realization of their agenda. People with firm, fixed beliefs, who are not afraid to stand up for what they believe in, are obvious threats. If a participant becomes a victim, the facilitator loses face and favor with the crowd. This is why crowds are broken up into groups of seven or eight, and why objections are written on paper rather than voiced aloud where they can be open to public discussion and debate. It’s called crowd control.

    At a meeting, have two or three people who know the Delphi Technique dispersed through the crowd so that, when the facilitator digresses from a question, they can stand up and politely say: “But you didn’t answer that lady/gentleman’s question.” Even if the facilitator suspects certain group members are working together, he will not want to alienate the crowd by making accusations. Occasionally, it takes only one incident of this type for the crowd to figure out what’s going on.

    Establish a plan of action before a meeting. Everyone on your team should know his part. Later, analyze what went right, what went wrong and why, and what needs to happen the next time. Never strategize during a meeting.

    A popular tactic of facilitators, if a session is meeting with resistance, is to call a recess. During the recess, the facilitator and his spotters (people who observe the crowd during the course of a meeting) watch the crowd to see who congregates where, especially those who have offered resistance. If the resistors congregate in one place, a spotter will gravitate to that group and join in the conversation, reporting what was said to the facilitator. When the meeting resumes, the facilitator will steer clear of the resistors. Do not congregate. Instead gravitate to where the facilitators or spotters are. Stay away from your team members.

    This strategy also works in a face-to-face, one-on-one meeting with anyone trained to use the Delphi Technique.

    Lynn Stuter is an education researcher in Washington state. Her web site address is http://www.learn-usa.com/.

  12. 12 wyndryder Jun 9th, 2008 at 9:31 am

    The whole thing is bullshit. I am old enough to remember when the general public hated bikers, and people did not ride them because they were the latest cool thing to do.

  13. 13 Dave B. Jun 9th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    You are making this way too complicated… the reality is that the motorcycle community (myself included), has brought this on ourself. 85 % of the bikes that come through my shop have had, or will receive an exhaust modification, and now that I think about it, no bike I have built or bought for myself to ride since 1986 has had mufflers, just drags or custom pipes with no baffles. I am not an exception either, most bikes on the road have loud exhausts. Strangely enough, this bothers some people.
    The ever expanding number of motorcycles on the road in recent years have naturally led to more motorcycles involved in accidents, add the distraction factors of G.P.S. units, cell phones, creature features, and lots of buttons in the dashboard these days, it make for angry motorcyclists (and rightly so), shaking their fists and giving the finger to car drivers. Oddly enough, this also seems to offend people.
    And then there are the unofficial rides that occur in every community in every state that involve sometimes hundreds of bikes, with no parade permit, taking over intersections and stopping traffic often resulting in arguments with cars and ending with the local police telling us to get the hell out of their town, (I’ve been in several of these over the years), after which we all gather at a watering hole and laugh about the situation. And of course, some folks are pissed about this too.
    These and many other infractions we have imposed on the “nice” people of this land has finally provoked a few suits to insist we are made to suffer a little growing up, and blah-blah-blah, in order to save us from our naughty ways. Of course they don’t actually care about us, they just want us to know they are the boss, so all their shouting and “We’ll show ’em”, zeal is really just self-important posturing and saber rattling.
    So take a little yellow pill and calm down, man. There is no Big Brother trying to secretly strip away your soul, and while we’re at it let’s put some more myths to bed:
    .Global Warming is Lie.
    .Yes, we actually went to the moon!
    .Cell phones don’t cause brain damage, but stupid people use them more often.
    .Your vote really doesn’t count. Really.
    .People will not listen to you if you wear sunglasses indoors.
    .As many people die wearing a helmet as not, while seatbelts have been proven effective in saving lives and preventing injury.
    .Loud pipes don’t actually save lives, but they are really cool.
    .The government isn’t really out to get you, it’s me they’re after.

    All this is giving me a headache, I’m going for a ride!

  14. 14 Mike Greenwald Jun 11th, 2008 at 6:59 am

    Nah, I am not making this too complicated.
    Don’t know where your shop is and what the local govt has done to help your business. I would reckon to say that you are one of the compliant ones that went along with the CARB recommendations years ago.
    Yeah, unbelievably when I forget my clear glasses, and tell the people that I am addressing that I made that mistake, they listen.
    Loud pipes are cool? BS
    If the loud pipes aren’t making the engine run better they are useless.
    we haven’t imposed a damned thing on the nice people of this land. The cacophony of whining seems to have a louder voice from those that have never ridden and consider motorcycles dangerous. Yet, loud mouths haven’t saved any lives either. Guess we need to tolerate that noise, too.
    I don’t sit down and shut up when people try to restructure motorcycling on any level. I don’t accept these things as impossible to change.
    Take two aspirin and call me in the morning after your ride.

  15. 15 Dave B. Jun 11th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Mike, I agree that that whining “suits” seem to get more attention for their causes than we get for ours, but I think it’s simply because people have never taken us seriously as a collective. We have no effective voice in Washington, and I don’t see one on the horizon, I’m just trying to navigate the stream of BS mandated by NHTSA, DOT, CARB, and local authorities as well, in order to build and license the bikes we make at my shop. It’s just the cost of doing business, no way around it… as far as compliance, well what the customer does to their bike after it’s licensed, is their own affair, I sell a lot of “custom use only” stuff.
    By the way, my shop is 85 miles due south of Louisville Kentucky, and if you care to see some of my work, you can see me and my buddy Joe doing what we do on YouTube, under the name of AMERICANMADEMACHINES, I’ve made several videos and slide shows showcasing our work, (feel free to give me hell if you think it doesn’t pass muster). But, I am now rambling…
    I suppose I find it necessary to walk the political minefield because there isn’t an alternative if you want to stay working in the motorcycle industry, after all, the government makes the rules, not the public or private sector. That’s just the way it is, and while most of my commentary in tongue in cheek, the comment I made about our vote being meaningless, I meant that with all my heart. I don’t know if it’s possible to change it or not,
    I just want to work, and then go home and ride… whatever it takes to get that done, is what I will do.
    Ride Strong.

  16. 16 Conrad Nicklus Jun 22nd, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    Ohhhh…..OHHHHHH…I want to hear my dads response to this if he has one.

  17. 17 Nicker Jun 23rd, 2008 at 12:29 am

    Dave B.

    Your confusing the Hell out-a me. What is it exactly that you suggest we do… Nothing….
    “Just Ride”…..???

    “…Don’t fear this garbage, it is merely a distraction, not totalitarianism…”

    If i don’t have to worry, why then would they want to “distract” me…???

    “.. [don’t put any gusto into]….whether or not we might one day have to wear gloves or approved riding boots….”

    So, your telling me that being told what i can and can’t ware isn’t a big deal….???
    Right now my neighbors are ditching their little skull caps for standard DOT helmets. What next, full face only? I call that the “slippery slope.”

    “… the comment I made about our vote being meaningless, I meant that with all my heart….”

    So your saying all those Florida recounts were just BS because Bush was the intended winner all along…??? Get real!

    “… I find it necessary to walk the political minefield because there isn’t an alternative if you want to stay working in the motorcycle industry, after all, the government makes the rules, not the public or private sector….”

    Are your telling me that trade organizations don’t get involved in “making rules” or are you saying they are part of “the government”….???

    I just want to work, and then go home and ride… whatever it takes to get that done, is what I will do.
    Ride Strong.

    “…Check the paranoia and JUST RIDE….”

    And if that paranoia is the result of the HA lobbyist telling you that the Secretary of Transportation told him, in a moment of candor, that she intended to do all she can to “legislate Motorcycles off the road,” You don’t think some one like that is the cause of that “bureaucratic mine field”…???

    “…You should also not be surprised that 99% of the [CA safety] suggestions will never become laws or even rules, as it would cost too much money…”

    Oh ya….? And how do ya thing the Socialist Republic of California got 50% of it’s ground water polluted with MTBE, because another fucking group of idiot were (clueless) air pollution activists.

    Let me suggest that the “gusto” should be put towards raising money for biker friendly politicians.
    Reality check,,,… Dude, absolutely no one in power gives a rat’s ass about what bikers do for St’ Judes or the Red Cross.

    And if you don’t think we have any control over the political process, ask the last lame idiot Governor of CA, who got his ass thrown out by the voters.

    Unfortunately, we ended up with “the Governator” who doesn’t seem to have the balls for a real fight and simply rolled over for the Liberals. Oh ya, did i mention he also fell of a bike, for which i don’t believe he had an operator permit….. 🙂


  18. 18 rc Jun 23rd, 2008 at 11:40 am

    “I suppose I find it necessary to walk the political minefield because there isn’t an alternative if you want to stay working in the motorcycle industry, after all, the government makes the rules, not the public or private sector.”

    Actually the government makes the rules the private sector pays for. Case in point, cell phones. The Science is clear on the dangers of their use in traffic. But check out the amount of money the wireless industry throws around Washington and the individual states.

    “I just want to work, and then go home and ride… whatever it takes to get that done, is what I will do.”

    Whatever it is that many may wish to do unfortunately has taken precedence over what we are supposed to do.

    “secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,” U.S. constitution.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government” -U.S. Declaration of independence.

    We have an “obligation.” Eternal Vigilance and by extension action. If we default on that then our “Freedoms/rights” are subject to being repossessed and sold to the highest bidder.

    The “politic” of riding is the same as the “politic” of anything else. Respect as opposed to indulgence.

    Whatever respect the “Biker” population may have had in the past has been eroded by our own lack of respect for ourselves and the blood of our forefathers. Resulting in our becoming nothing but a caricature of ourselves.

    Screw it lets ride is a catchy phrase utilized by HD in their latest marketing campaign to try and boost lagging sales by capitalizing on their bad boy image of the past. Were they really to to believe in their own myth it might of been, “Screw em, lets fight!”


  19. 19 Nicker Jun 23rd, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    RC has it spot fucking on…!!!

    “…Whatever respect the “Biker” population may have had in the past has been eroded by our own lack of respect for ourselves and the blood of our forefathers. Resulting in our becoming nothing but a caricature of ourselves…”

    One Hell of a reality check for all the snivelling about the Florida.


  20. 20 Dave B. Jun 23rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    I only wish I could be as naive about politics. Nicker, your vote is just as meaningless as mine… our government WILL decide what is accectable from you, me, and everyone else that will ride a motorcycle, drive a car, operate a big rig, own a home, operate a business, etc. Government makes the rules, we don’t. We just pay to play. It really is just that simple, So, no matter how much we don’t like it, you can’t change it and neither can I.
    So everyone can blog about it, bitch about it, say I’m not playing ball, or whatever floats your boat, the fact is I’ve built and maintained motorcycles for almost 20 years, so that means I follow the rules of CARB, NHTSA, EPA, or I’m outta business. Ask anyone else that actually builds and titles motorcycles and they will probably tell you the same thing.
    I simply do what I must to keep the wheels turning, and I make NO APOLOGY for it. Whether I like it or not has never been a factor in the equation. Fact is, it’s easy to make grand statements about personal freedom and “I’ll do this” or I would’ve done that” remarks, but we all know what happens when you cross a state line with a helmet law… you come down off that high horse and put your f@%king helmet on. Or when the cop says “You rev that bike one more time with those loud pipes and you’re going to jail boy” that puffed out chest of yours quickly deflates as you slowly putt off around the corner… we all know what I’m saying here, talk is cheap.
    So as soon as someone gets some legislation passed in favor of bikers and a riding lifestyle, you will have my undivided attention, til then, we’re all just a bunch of guys with bikes blabbing and blogging about a world that just doesn’t get it, or us.

  21. 21 Dave B. Jun 23rd, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    Oh, to answer your question Nicker, “what should we do?” Do whatever you want, if it makes you feel like you’ve made a difference, that’s OK. But just so you know, it won’t make any difference. And as for anyone that actually thinks they can entertain what the Declaration of Independence suggests about casting out a corrupt government, well good luck with that… and by the way, there’s no Santa Claus either, or a Tooth Fairy.
    Just thought ya might like to know!

  22. 22 rc Jun 23rd, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Dave B. a fairly significant number of posts indicating you have no interest in the discussion and no belief or hope that anything can change. And you are correct, it won’t when we operate from the mindset in your post prior to your last, “So as soon as someone gets some legislation passed in favor of bikers and a riding lifestyle, you will have my undivided attention.”

    “as soon as someone?” Nothing changes while we wait for “someone” to change it. Change only occurs when “someones” create it.

    As a strong critic of the “motorcycle rights movement,” I share your cynicism re: the following:

    “Fact is, it’s easy to make grand statements about personal freedom and “I’ll do this” or I would’ve done that” remarks, but we all know what happens when you cross a state line with a helmet law… you come down off that high horse and put your f@%king helmet on. Or when the cop says “You rev that bike one more time with those loud pipes and you’re going to jail boy” that puffed out chest of yours quickly deflates as you slowly putt off around the corner… we all know what I’m saying here, talk is cheap.”

    You can’t blame a government or anybody else for walking over you when you lay down to provide them a carpet. And if you allow them to walk over you once, they will be happy to do it again, and again, and again………………..

    We are not far apart in Ideologies as I too agree with an ending statement of your first post, “Fuck politicians!” Because if YOU don’t they will continue to fuck us all, rider or not.

    Ride Free
    “Let Freedom Reign”

  23. 23 Nicker Jun 27th, 2008 at 1:31 am


    Sure, i understand your position, you’re not saying anything i haven’t heard from half the voters in my precinct (resignation and apathy).

    But, i gotta side with rc on this one.
    If ya role over the system sure as Hell will eat your lunch for ya.

    The problem is perspective.
    Don’t look for or expect “one” election, “one” legislation bill, or “one” politician to fix this mess.

    Ya can’t swallow an elephant, ya gotta eat it one bite at a time. And expect to be damned sick of elephant well before the deed is done.

    But those incremental wins are sweet. As an example, just this week the court upheld a citizen’s right to own a gun. And not the “collective citizen” (as a body, to form a militia), but each individual citizen, for self protection….

    So, voting for conservatives who appoint strict constructionist judges makes a difference. Now, all those who push against Carry Permits are gonna find it much tougher to keep saying no valid requests.

    Changes like this happens incrementally and and can take a long time. So long that even the Media Liberals don’t remember the last time the 2nd amendment was taken on by the Supreme Court. As a matter of fact the morons that constitute our “watch-dog free press” have been reporting that the 2nd amendment has never been tested in court. Not so!

    In US vs Miller (1939) the court upheld a ban on sawed off shotguns. And in doing so applied the “collective citizen” concept. However, the new decision is much more to the point the founders (re, Federalist papers) had in mind,….. that the citizens should never lose the ability to challenge a tyrannical government……. 🙂

    So, make sure ya vote and make sure those ya vote for support the constitution. It may take a while, but it’ll pay off in the long run.

    Hell, if i didn’t believe that i’d be damned depressed………….. all the time!!

    Great thered you guys, thanks


  24. 24 Repeal Machine Jul 7th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    I agree with Mike from a philosophical standpoint, and I recognize the fact that he’s outnumbered by folks like Dave B who disagree with him. Fortunately, the motorcyclists who want to stop the erosion of their most basic rights can act on their own accord.

    The only people who can change the world are those who act. Everyone else sits on the sidelines, criticizing either the way things are … or the people who act to change things. Lots of people talk the talk, but the rare few like Mike are walking the walk.

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