Harley-Davidson Corporate Abuse Or Freedom Of Speech?


Since November 08, Erik J. Dunk owner of Iron Block Harley-Davidson in Watertown, NY, has posted several messages critical of President Barack Obama on the Harley electronic sign visible to motorists along Interstate 81.  Several messages (some are disputed by Erik Dunk) said “Obama is not a Christian! He is a Muslim!!!” then “”Obama are you kidding? We’re not Muslim. You are not Christian!!” Some other anti Obama messages was calling him a dictator and suggested Obama doesn’t possess a valid birth certificate. Because of numerous complaints at the local level and to the Harley-Davidson headquarter, Director of Harley Corporate Communications Robert H. Klein stated “that the dealer sign contradicts Harley-Davidson commitments to individual dignity and inclusion and that the company takes living to these values very seriously. Although Harley-Davidson dealerships are independent businesses, dealers have contracts with the company and the contracts do contain provisions regarding these types of activities that affect brand association…”

Via lawyers negotiations and after several months of controversy, Erik Dunk agreed yesterday Thursday June 11 to eliminate his controversial anti-Obama messages from the electronic sign alongside his dealership. At the same time, Mr. Dunk stated that he doesn’t t know yet what message he will post next on his Iron Block Dealership sign…

So, what is your opinion? Do you think that as a business you are there to sell a product, not voice your political views? Or do you think that Harley dealer Erik Dunk is entitled to “pick his poison” and express his opinion whether it be about politics, religion, abortion, war, gun control, gays right to marriage, etc.

61 Responses to “Harley-Davidson Corporate Abuse Or Freedom Of Speech?”

  1. 1 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 9:00 am

    Possibly an alternative message would go after the legislators and police departments in New York for being prejudiced in their singling out motorcycles and motorcyclists with their Motorcycle Safety Checkpoints. Is that sort of prejudice allowed to treat motorcyclists and bikers like black people from the 40s, 50s and 60s?

  2. 2 Rogue Jun 12th, 2009 at 9:12 am

    Motorcycle people are being treated they way they are because not enough of them are involved in stopping it.
    If the motorcycle people would follow the teachings that Martin Luther King taught black and other races to use then this type of thing would come to a stop.
    This is Not A Race Issue but the teaching of this man work very well.

  3. 3 CA Jun 12th, 2009 at 9:21 am

    I think that most people who agreed with Mr. Dunk are probably too stupid to read anything to forum their own opinion. This is just like most people who listen to talk shows and the forum their opinion from one side. There are two sides to every issue. If Mr. Dunk wants to get into politics then do it! He already has the backing now, I would assume. My guess he probably does not want to be criticized about how well or bad he is doing, it could be people might note want to vote for a redneck, white trash or just a good guy. Your voice is heard now do something instead of putting words out, they mean nothing unless there is action.

  4. 4 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 9:26 am


    Race, Creed or Color.

    Motorcycles seem to be a Creed.

    Difference of opinion about the Obama speech that stated that the USA is a muslim country are patently false. Read the “In God We Trust” slogan on the money.

    I found a similarity that because of color, groups of people were protected under law and because of transportation choice of a motorcycle that we are not protected from the bullying tactics of police departments.

    I would guess that it is time for may motorcyclists to get off their asses and bring forth the “change” that we want. Not the change that is being forced upon us.

  5. 5 Donnie Jun 12th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Mike, please… Obama never said that America is a muslim country. He said that there is a very large muslim community in America. Obama is not Muslim, he is Christian and i would never buy a bike from this Iron Block dealership. The guy is dumb and was about to lose his franchise. It would have been justified and legally right . You don’t make personal political statements on a Harley sign when you don’t own the brand. Period.

  6. 6 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:05 am

    “And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world,” Mr. Obama said.

  7. 7 Scott Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:09 am

    By using the Harley Davidson logo on his building Mr. Dunk is obligated to abide by the contract with them. Kind of like signing a pact with the devil himself.

  8. 8 Donnie Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:12 am

    Mike, now your statement is word for word correct and confirms what I posted. America has a large community of Muslims, but is NOT a Muslim country.

  9. 9 Fred P. Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:14 am

    We all have our opinions and thoughts about Barack. The message being send here other than political views is, the dealer may actually be LOSING customers because of these postings. He is forming an image about his dealership and employees, whether they wish to be included in their bosses actions.

  10. 10 road12 Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:16 am

    Do not mix business and personal beliefs and do not use your company and communication tools to express your opinion. This dealer’s behavior is unacceptable. Under any other circumstances, he would have lost his bar$shield.

    Can you imagine a Chevy dealers saying the same stuff once Obama tried to save his ass and give him our tax money. HD has contracts with his dealers for communication and use of their logo. What he did violates the company policy, End of story. He’s not happy with Obama, fine. Just use blogs and forums to talk about it, not your business.

  11. 11 John P. Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    This hd dealer is retarded. Lucky he is still a hd dealer.

  12. 12 Gregory Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:27 am

    All this to prove that the hard core anti Obama people using race, religion, citizenship against the President are all very stupid people. Watch out, it may include more than 1 Harley dealer.

  13. 13 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 10:48 am

    I am under the impression that Harley Davidson is overstepping the “At Will Employment Doctrine” in this case and what was said on the sign is being regulated because of bail out money.

  14. 14 Steve Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Freedom of speech is one thing….as long as we’re speaking facts, not rehashed rhetoric that has been shown false. Your business is YOUR business and if you want to piss off the majority and lose face to the general public, so be it…BUT when it’s a corporation’s business, better to keep your opinions to yourself and as said above, use other forums, blogs or the local barbershop to express them. Also, make sure you vote..it is the only way to change things……flame on!

  15. 15 Shifter Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    Agree 150% with Steve. What a poor businessman this guy is. He pissed off at least 50% of his potential clients, collaborators and all people at Harley factory. He is as dumb as Bush.

  16. 16 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    For those that don’t like it, you are welcome to ride a Muslim Edition of the HD. Oh that’s right, it was as unpopular as the Confederate Edition Sportster.

  17. 17 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:47 am


    Pissin’ off your majority is easy.

    Correct me if I am wrong, Iron Block is a dealership not owned nor operated by H-D.

    Shifter, where was your support when the sign criticized Bush.

  18. 18 hoyt Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:50 am

    The digital signs are dumb to begin with since they are yet another obnoxious distraction to many bad drivers.

  19. 19 hoyt Jun 12th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    “not owned or operated by H-D”…then HD can stop doing business with the dealer.

    Done deal.

  20. 20 Justin Jun 12th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Saw thousands anti Bush/Chesney statements, but never on a HD Sign. And you Mike Greenwald? Where? When/

  21. 21 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    On the Iron Block sign while he was president, Justin.

    Hoyt, the threat to discontinue business was already prompted by HD – Legal Department. Therefore the message there was changed.

  22. 22 LostDog Jun 12th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    I wonder what the H-D sign in Dubai says??

  23. 23 jspfc Jun 12th, 2009 at 1:27 pm


    It just says HD. Unless they recently built a stand alone building, the HD dealership is in a strip mall type of building and there is no electronic sign.

  24. 24 Steve Jun 12th, 2009 at 1:39 pm


    I stand by what I said, he’s free to put whatever he wants, as long as it’s the truth…..correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t HD own the franchise name? And wouldn’t the dealer have some kind of contract that would say in some kind of legal mumbo jumo that the said franchisee cannot do anything that would “tarnish the reputation” of the franchiser.
    If you said was correct about the anit-Bush signs on his dealership, and I have no reason not to believe you, then back to my original point….as long as it’s the truth. If he pisses off his customers it’s his call, if he continues to piss off HD, then he’d better start selling something else

  25. 25 Steve Jun 12th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    and for the comments that those who believe the Iron Block sign are stupid people, that’s just wrong. Just because someone doesn’t follow along with your opinions doesn’t make them stupid. There are many educated people who feel Obama wasn’t the best canidate…time will tell. But to say he’s a Muslim, anti-American or whatever…THAT is an ignorant statement

  26. 26 Grayhawk Jun 12th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    Sorting thru the comments whether you like it or not Dunk is and subsequently his dealership is a Contract not a Franchise. Yes the contract is one sided favoring the Motor Company just like most corporate contracts to their Contractor. Actual Wording in said Contract is specific to what Dunk can and can not do to stay compliant. Right or wrong he signed and agreed to such so it is a non issue from the Brand and Contract standpoint Contract withstanding. So again like it or not it is not a freedom of speech issue that can be won if litigated.

    If he was more astute he could have hung/displayed a stand alone sign not attached to HD’s signage,etc., etc. or expressed his views in other ways. Still May not of won in the long run as public personal stands can and do affect who buys from you. If your happy with that then that is what it is, your call.

    HD signage is specific in language also. Like it or not he is the one out of step contractually and brand wise if not he would not have rolled over.

    Additionally it may not be the smartest business practice to limit your clientel based on political posture unless your a stand alone business venture content with resulting position.

    No I did not vote for Obama or agree with what is going on in America today. Do agree we need to group lobby probably thru the AMA unless some one knows better voice and get involved in/for what we do agree on and have a chance to keep what is left of biker rights and maybe get a few more back. Like always lip service is just that.


  27. 27 nicker Jun 12th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Well, his contract with HD is one issue, but as Mike says, overstepping the “At Will Employment Doctrine” is an arguable point.

    However these are facts:
    BO’s Citizenship issues is not resolved by a long shot.
    He didn’t take his wife to Saudi commensurate with certain Muslim prohibitions.
    As US president, he did bow (very low at the waist) to the Saudi King (got the photo in my hand).
    He has pushed the constitutional limits of presidential power more than any other President.

    Which begs the question, Why can’t an independent business people express their opinions through their business….??? As previously stated, let the chips fall where they may.

    Some may not like what’s being said…. On the one hand they don’t have to listen. On the other, they don’t have the right to stop that expression ….. YET.

    The point is what part of this guy’s message was false…???
    IMHO, if we cave in to threats over what we can and can’t say, we’re slitting our own throats.
    The “Fairness Doctrine” is just such a threat.

    The larger threat is from Progressive agendas the world over.
    For those of us who sent E-mails to the UN protesting the 2001 small arms conference (who’s aganda was to eliminate privatly owned fir arms) the UN turned many of our posts over to their security office, even though no one letter made a threat (see NRA report).

    Apparently freedom of expression is no longer a concept valued Internationally or Nationally.
    How about on this BLog……????

    For those of you who want change…. well, looks to me like your getting it.
    Speech-control is here.
    Wage control & price control are next.


  28. 28 Mike Greenwald Jun 12th, 2009 at 2:17 pm


    Making a pro or anti politician statement on any sign is not something we want or need regulated by the government nor by industry.

    It is my understanding that a concern for the employees of the dealership by the owner of the dealership influenced his actions to change the sign.


    Seems like HD Corporate have insulted a number of people over the years and this is corporate bullying. Corporate best watch their step. I understand that they are not doing so well lately. Guess corporate has to obey whoever owns the tit that corporate is suckling for the bail out money.

  29. 29 Grayhawk Jun 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Mike agree HD has bullied, those within their contract control and those outside making an independent living, far more then a lot of major coorps over the years under the premise of self protection which is a negative against them for sure. I do not agree with it nor think it is/was their smartest path of choice.

    Coorporations get caught up in their own advertised image and self worth not so unlike some others.

    Just from a contractually binding point he,Dunk may have shit in his own mess-kit and could surely achieve same voiced opinions in other ways. His way, his choice of paths.

    Do not believe at will employment for an individual who may be working at a dealership is/are one and the same as a contracted dealer and his contractual obligations, but understand your point and have been wrong before.

    Noting Dunk can opt out of his contract and become an independent or maybe just do another DBA separated of course and do his personal bidding from a stand alone stance and keep his money maker at the same time, maybe have two money makers, assuming he is making money.

    In regards to HD taking TARP money to my knowledge they have not nor has HDFS which would be the likely path if taken much like GM’s GMAC wing if you will. Tarp has strings, etc. Talf is different and more likely if business went there, hope they don’t as that would mean spirling down economy is worsening and a bunch more independents would be further affected as well. Not good.

    Government I believe did include the individual dealerships in the SBA possible loans extended originally just to car dealerships, now boats , RV’s, MC Dealerships that qualify uder SBA guidelines are afforded same possible option.

    It is definetly a tough day getting worse and less individual rights every day not my American Dream.


  30. 30 Woody Jun 12th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    I believe Scott covered it completely;

    “By using the Harley Davidson logo on his building Mr. Dunk is obligated to abide by the contract with them. Kind of like signing a pact with the devil himself.”

    Anything else, while interesting, is moot.

  31. 31 JOEL Jun 12th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Most of “you people” just don’t get it do you? How many of you psuedo- intellectuals have ever READ the Constitution? The First Amendment works BOTH ways people! Few if any of you would be pontificating if the message on the board had anti Bush rhetoric crawling across the sign. How many of the “Learned” among you understand not only the history of the United States of America but World history? If you KNEW your history you would KNOW what is going on! How many of you understand how a business operates? Mr Dunk DOES own his business. he is a franchisee. if Harley-Davidson pulls his franchise, he does not go out of business…he picks up another line and continues his operation. It is HIS business! He has the Right to say what he did.
    And especially to you CA…..let us discuss your intellegence! You sound like the typical mean spirited know nothing that can onlyexpress themselves by using hate filled speech. You are the Poster Boy for the “Educated Idiot”.

  32. 32 Steve Jun 12th, 2009 at 5:14 pm


    So if it works both ways, I can freely put on my sign in front of the shop that you are a convicted sex offender of little boys? No, I would be sued, if you wanted to, and lose. Freedom of speech does NOT give us the right to say anything we want to, specially when it infringes on the righs of others. Now, for the political postings, if every politician bothered to sue for every slanderous statement made in public, they would have no time to campaign or work at their jobs (some would say that this would be a good thing). The President’s citizenship status has satisfied Washington DC on both sides of the aisle, why is it still an issue? Do you think that if his BC was a forgery, the RNC would go ahead and let him take the oath of office? We all can make a case that he used poor judgement in “bowing” to the Saudi King, perhaps he was showing respect, but it was a naive blunder. He didn’t make the same mistake twice when meeting with President “Can I buy a vowel” from Iran. Those who voted for Obama will always be quick to defend his actions, those who voted for McCain will always be quick to find his faults. Me, I will always support the office of the Presidency (like I support our troops, regardless what I think about why we’re there), be it Republican or Democrat or Independent….I just will not always support the person holding the title.
    Now if we can get off this damned machine and jump on our bikes and go ride, good times will follow

  33. 33 nicker Jun 12th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

    “…. The President’s citizenship status has satisfied Washington DC on both sides of the aisle, why is it still an issue? …”

    EVERYONE in DC is satisfyied……???
    Apparently, not quite:

    WASHINGTON (CNN) — Rep. Bill Posey, R-Florida, introduced legislation this week requiring candidates to produce a birth certificate to be eligible to run in future presidential elections, triggering a sharp reaction from Democrats who accused him of “questioning President Obama’s citizenship.”

    Posey submitted a bill with no fanfare Thursday that instructs the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to be amended to add the birth certificate requirement. The Constitution requires that a president or a vice president be “a natural born citizen.”

    “…Do you think that if his BC was a forgery, the RNC would go ahead and let him take the oath of office?…”

    Well, Billy Jeff Clinton was (among other things) a credibly accused rapist, they let him slide….
    What part of political correctness trumping facts and the law is so hard to understand?
    What either political party is willing to say or do is no metric of anything.
    (other than perhaps corruption)

    Having raised the point, (presumably to impeach the E.J.’s credibility) it’s fair game to say that the “Birth Certificate’ issues ain’t the slam-dunk many are willing to accept.
    The due diligence on BO’s documentation may have been about as good/bad as that done on the Bush AWOL letter.

    So, instead of getting to hung up on what E.J. said, it may be more productive to focus on who’s stopping him from saying it and why…..

    Many of us served in combat for this country, some of us even volunteered, and we didn’t do it to support crap like this.


  34. 34 fuji Jun 12th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    Did the sponsorship with various groups over the years.

    When it works its ok but when some one uses your sponsorship for their own agenda without you knowing, your name is tarnished for a long time regardless of your views and how many dollars you spend to keep in front of the public.

    I’am not one to side with the Motor Company and their past but there are rules and rules of the road if Mr Dung cannot go by the rules then he should hit the road.

  35. 35 Woody Jun 13th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Actually, I have read the Constitution. I don’t recall anything about business agreements that freely give up some controls or free will to another party. McDonald’s owners don’t get to pick their brand of cola or catsup BTW, and still be a McDonald’s

  36. 36 Boss Hawg Jun 13th, 2009 at 6:39 am

    Good Morning…it’s time to go riding here on the sunny SE coast of GA.

    Politics and poli-tricks….You boys should get on your farm tractors, leave the coffee shop and go riding on this lovely Saturday morning.

    Vroom vroom vroom.

    Boss Hawg

  37. 37 Jim C Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:10 am

    I have not seen the signs being discussed. Don’t know the guy who owns the dealership. Don’t necessarily agree with what he been putting up on the bill board. As far as I am concerned it is his opinion to which he is entitled to say. He signed a contract with HD basically stating he would not make statements like he has made and if he wants to continue to do biz with HD the he needs to stop making those statements. HD is the one who buckled under and has censored this person because they can. Kinda hypocritical on the part of HD-just my opinion.
    We continue to lose little freedoms here and there and one of these days we are going to wake up and wonder how and when did it happen. I will say that if he wants to make these statements then he needs to do it on his own without dragging someone else in who may not want to be part of those statements such as HD. If he does it on his own and not as an owner of a HD dealership then HD should have nothing to say about it. The fact that lawyers had to get involved tells me that this guy is passionate about free speech and our freedoms in general and isn’t that what this culture is all about?

  38. 38 Cade Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:16 am

    Set Hussian Obama on a intercontinental missile, aim it at N.Korea and light the fuse.
    Problem solved.

  39. 39 Hondo Cat Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:10 am

    “…dealers have contracts with the company and the contracts do contain provisions regarding these types of activities that affect brand association…”

    The above quote pretty much dictates the answer to Cyril’s question. Sure, Dunk is an independent dealer, but his dealership sells the MoCo’s products and therefore anything he puts out there on his sign with the MoCo trademark could seriously affect brand association. So, the answer is very simple. IF Dunk’s dealership contract with the MoCo prohibits negative associations with the brand he is selling, he could be forced to cease displaying his personal views on the corporate trademark sign.

  40. 40 Mike Greenwald Jun 13th, 2009 at 9:34 am


    I am glad that you have read the constitution. Now, the fun part begins. The next step is to read case law about the 1st Amendment. Case law coming from the Supreme Court of the United States will help clarify your perception of what controls are retained and by whom.

    As a start,you might want to familiarize yourself with the cases referenced here:

  41. 41 David Jun 13th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Nicker, I agree with you. Mike, H-D is working on the Latinos right now they will get to the Muslims later. It may be their next ad campaign or could come after the Asian campaign.


  42. 42 Mike Greenwald Jun 14th, 2009 at 6:27 am

    There are many areas of motorcycling that have contributed to the pussification of bikers. Can’t believe that HD feels that this sort of censorship contributes anything positive to the bottom line or strength of brand.

    Depending upon which war the corporation feels that we are currently fighting, an outsider might say that they are tending towards a suppressionist stance.

    I am not here to argue the versions of McCarthyism that have evolved nor the thought police wars. Currently, HD ought to look hard and fast at how much riders bring to their bottom line and then what sub-groups these riders belong to.

    Sucking ass with all the politically correct government types for the bailout money is a significant sign of weakness and self enslavement.

    People rode Harleys because they were rough, tough and raw. Those qualities have been lost for a kinder gentler version. Used to be that you could learn something at the dealerships and like them for their individualism and strength. Harley keeps herding all the dealers and their customers to the edge of the cliff.

    Respect is earned not assumed nor given for weakness. This kind of maneuver is very weak.

  43. 43 Rodent Jun 14th, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Harley use to sell to outlaws and cops…Now they sell to anyone they can..That’s why weall have jobs in the industry. We’re all parisites of the Motor Company

  44. 44 tim Jun 14th, 2009 at 9:47 am

    Ok guys,
    This is a freedom of speech thing. Yes I supported Bush and I think what President Obama is doing to this country borders on criminal. No I did not like the anti Bush signs and slogans but, I did not scream fo them to be taken down or call the people with them morons (even if they were). We have a little thing called the Bill of Rights in this country, last time i checked we had the right to free speech. This is what makes us great. This is one of the many reasons people come to this country and o0ne of the reasons I love this country.
    It wold seem to me that “Bikers” who scream the loudest about freedom would understand this, sorry I was wrong. Hey get of the damn computer for a minute and read a book, I suggest fro started The Forgotten Man, Or Atlas Shrugged, Or Liberal Fascism. Them you may get a grasp of what is happening to this country. “Bikers” say it is all about freedom “tha’ts why we ride Dude”. Except if you ride the wrong type of Bike, or your costume is not right, or the other that is sooo important to them. We hae the EPA criple the Aftermarket custom bike business. I do not remember the marches onDC for this. We have stupid law after stupid law enacted to stifle our freedom, and where was the poelpe upset over it? But let there be a sign that questions the Lord and Messiha Obama and man do you guys get pissed. Now if Florida we have a law in effect that can have your bike taken away and be charged with a felonie for you tag sideways. (thank you ABATE of Florida for not catching that one) An Illeagal can rape you daughter and get less sentance than that.. All you “Freedon Fighters” out there have enough on your plate to be seduced by the “look what the left hand is doing and don’t pay attention to the right hand” of this presidency.
    WKAE UP we have the most anti-freedom AT that we have had in a log time in Eric Holder, we have a tax cheat as Sec of Treas in Timmy Geither, and the list goes on. As Pres. Obama said in a recent speach “You ain’t seen monthin’ yet”

  45. 45 Woody Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    far be it from me to argue with wikki 🙂

  46. 46 nicker Jun 14th, 2009 at 10:53 pm


    “… Harley use to sell to outlaws and cops …”

    Well, i suspect that decision was always a function of the dealer/owner.
    As i recall, before like 1965 the Concord CA dealer was rather selective about who got parts.

    Then he moved out of the old barn into a brand new building and all of a sudden ya could get a brand new Sportster with a 6″ front end, rolling on a 21 and a 16…. Go figure.


  47. 47 slobber Jun 15th, 2009 at 10:26 am

    CA said: “I think that most people who agreed with Mr. Dunk are probably too stupid to read anything to forum their own opinion.”

    I’d like to think that I am smart enough to “forum” my own opinion, so here it is.

    Actions speak louder than words.

    Obama’s credo throughout the campaign season was based on two ideals: “change” and “bi-partisanship”. So far, not one bill has been passed or debated without the Democrats falling directly in line with Obama’s stance. Every bill has been passed with all Democrats voting Yea, Republicans voting Nay. That is not bi-partisanship. On the stimulus package, Obama publicly stated that he was inviting Republicans to submit any changes they would like to see. The Republicans responded as requested. Not a single change requested was included in the bill. That is not bi-partisanship. Democrats, led by Nancy Pelosi, continue to vilify Republicans in the press. That is not bi-partisanship. Nothing has “changed” in Washington, D.C. So far, Obama gets an F- for delivering on his campaign promises.

    Next, we can look at the rest of Obama’s actions to “forum” an opinion. We can see that, on behalf of the American public, he purchased the lion’s share of GM, a massively failing company that no investor in their right mind wanted a piece of. Horrible investment, at any level, let alone 60% of the company. He also used our collective savings to purchase tens of percentages of financial institutions that were on the brink of bankruptcy. Again, companies that no investor wanted a piece of. Most, if not all, of these companies will be gone within a decade. Again, horrible investment. The only thing these actions bought is time, time for the American employees of these companies to find better employment, because these companies are going to fail anyway.

    Obama’s tax policy has turned out to be completely backwards of his promises as well. He promised “lower taxes” for the economically challenged in this country, the people who largely put him into office in the first place. Once in office, how has his tax policy been enacted? A promised tax cut for all Americans making under $250,000 per year that has never materialized. Increased taxes on cigarettes and liquor, in large part punishing the people who voted him into office in the first place. When you can’t afford to go out on the town for entertainment, you can usually afford a six pack and a pack of smokes, but now those are going to cost you 20-30% more thanks to these taxes. These taxes are put into place by a claim that they will help with health costs for children and poor Americans. I think anyone with half a brain can dissect that statement.

    Obama wants to close Guantanamo and bring the terrorists being housed there onto American soil. Most of left-wing America says these people aren’t terrorists and deserve a fair trial. They probably do deserve a fair trial, but the left-wingers must admit that when 70+ of the previously released detainees (released under GW’s command largely at the behest of the American public and foreign governments) have now been recaptured fighting for al Qaeda and the Taliban or attempting to carry out terrorist attacks elsewhere, there is probably a good chance that these detainees are not being falsely charged as terrorists.

    Obama has so far increased the US National Debt more in 6 months than all previous Presidents have, in all of our history. Sum up all debt incurred by previous administrations, and the result is lower than what Obama has added. After having fleeced the American public like this, now he wants to pass a law saying that all new spending bills must spell out where the money is going to come from. He took a blank check, fleeced the checking account and now wants to close it. Does that sound reasonable to you?

    Judging by actions alone, not his rhetoric, the only thing that I can find to “believe in” is that Obama is a hard core Socialist at heart. While that does not say anything about these HD billboards (I disagree with the owner’s messages as well, they are obviously false) it does make me question why so many red-blooded Americans think Obama is so wonderful. If you were true Americans you would be questioning the motives behind his actions so far in office. You would be able to see through plain glasses that he is backtracking on his campaign promises. While America may find better relations with foreign governments (besides Israel) under Obama, it will also find itself hurting economically at home for a very long time to come. That LOWERS our national security, just as Dick Cheney has pointed out. A weak financial America is an easy target for any persons or countries wishing harm upon America.

  48. 48 MikeT Jun 15th, 2009 at 11:26 am

    Two words: “Spell Check” 😉

  49. 49 Cam Jun 15th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Slobber, WOW, I could not have said it better myself. The only opinion I may differ with you on is the part of having better relations with foreign governments. In many countries around the world Obama is looked at as being weak. So even though it may seem that our relations are better it is only because other countries think they can now take advantage of us due to our weak leadership.

  50. 50 Jeff Nicklus Jun 15th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    Slobber, Nicker, Grayhawk et al,

    Very well said Gentlemen …. very well said !

    Over & Out,


  51. 51 bythesword Jun 16th, 2009 at 2:59 am

    I bought a bike from Eric Dunk in the early 90s. Not a pleasant experience. Believe me, if it weren’t for the close proximity of Fort Drum, Iron block would have been out of business a long time ago.

  52. 52 just my opinion Jun 17th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Funny how people on here want to talk about there rights and how the constitution says this or that. But if you people had any real knowlage of what the constitution said you would understand that if your mother or father is a citizen that fact alone makes any child born to either parent a citizen. It does not matter if that child was born in texas or iran that child is still a citizen of the United States of America PERIOD. The reason the law is written that way is because we do have United States soldiers giving birth out side of our borders and we do have United States citizens that go on vacation and give birth sooner than they thought they would give birth. And the truth be known this country is all about immigrants. If it was not for our family members coming here from all over the world than less than 1% of the people reading this blog would be citizens of the USA. That being said maybe we should think before we start saying who should be in the United States and who should not be here. Obama’s mother was born in Kansas. She was a citizen there fore Obama is a citizen PERIOD. And as for your right to say anything you want about who ever you want that is NOT a right given by free speach. You only have the right to state opinion or speak of things that don’t infringe on others rights. Free speach gives us the right to protest and state opinions so long as those opinions do not infringe on some one elses rights. After all as Americans we have the right not to have some idiot speaking lies about us and causing damage to our businesses and personal reputations. Funny how some will infringe on the rights of others and claim the constitution gives them that right. Funny how they think they should have protection for there acts of hatred but they don’t care about the rights of those that they would infringe on. Don’t hide behind the constitution if you don’t respect the rights of others. Because to do so is un -American and ignorant

  53. 53 Grayhawk Jun 17th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Just my Opinion, it may or may not be exactly as you say depending on dates and changes to/in citizenship by Acquisition, haven’t researched it, as I do not know the argued dates and won’t.

    Real issue may be in regards to politically flavored changes or constitutional erosion is not just one man or women as President but the enabling Congress as they could shut down any President at any time by vote and veto override or even Impeachment. So that is/are real culprits and where pressure needs to be applied or fight fought as they can make him as functional as a lame duck or impeach by vote. But if he was impeached than there would be Biden, oops if he, Biden, was then impeached we would be left with Pelosi, shiiiiiiiiit I guess we need to tell our congressional reps how we want them to vote or we won’t vote for them. We’re defintley bound up no matter what your political posture is.

    Back to your comment.

    Excerpt of Course;

    Birth to U.S. Citizen Parents (“Acquisition”)
    In many circumstances, even though a child is born outside the United States, if at least one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child’s birth, the child automatically “acquires” citizenship. When this child marries and has children, those children may also acquire U.S. citizenship at birth.
    The laws governing whether or not a child born outside of the United States acquires U.S. citizenship from parents have changed several times. You’ll need to look at the law that was in effect on the date of the child’s birth (and the parents’ birth, if grandparents were U.S. citizens) for guidance. These laws differ for the following time periods:
    • prior to May 24, 1934
    • May 25, 1934 to January 12, 1941
    • January 13, 1941 to December 23, 1952
    • December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986, and
    • November 14, 1986 to present.

    To read about the law that was in effect at the time of your birth, see U.S. Immigration Made Easy, by Ilona Bray (Nolo).



  54. 54 just my opinion Jun 18th, 2009 at 11:55 am

    Grayhawk The point I was trying to get across is simply that our president is a citizen and people should stop saying he is not. One thing I think most of use can agree on is that no matter who is the president there will be folks on both side that both support his veiws and the other side that does not support his veiws. I personally think the biggest problem with our system is that we Americans tend to think Democrat and/or Republican first and American second rather than being Americans first then political second. I have never agreed with all that any president has said or believed in but I have always supported my president and my country and I always will. Our country may not be even close to perfect but it is by far the best country on this earth. That is easy to see if you have traveled any where out side our borders. It is also evident by the fact that people from all over the globe what to be American’s. That is just my opinion and as an American I am intitled to that. It may only be worth what I have charged you for it but it is truely how I fell. God Bless America

  55. 55 Jeff Nicklus Jun 19th, 2009 at 9:14 am

    Just My Opinion,

    While I do agree with much of what you had to say in your last rant, I must take exception to your first sentence. Simply being a “Citizen” of this country does not legally qualify a person, under the terms of office of the US Constitution, to hold the highest office of this country. Cyril Huze is a US Citizen, Mike Tomas is a US Citizen, Nicker is a US Citizen however none of these individuals may hold the office of the President of The United States of America, as none are “Natural Born Citizens”.

    My questions is therefore a simple one ….. If Obama is indeed a Natural Born Citizen, who has never surrendered his citizenship to become an Indonesian Citizen or had his legal guardian (his Mother) surrender his citizenship, then why not show your birth certificate and end the controversy? Every other person running for the office of The President has done so, why not him.

    Over & Out,


  56. 56 nicker Jun 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 am


    Allow a legal immigrant to enlighten you.

    “… But if you people had any real knowledge of what the constitution said you would understand that if your mother or father is …”

    The Constitution is the Policy Document.

    However, how the nuts & bolts of Citizenship actually works is in the “Uniform Code”
    You do know what the Uniform Code is, right………???


  57. 57 just my opinion Jun 23rd, 2009 at 11:11 am

    Jeff; Let me ask you a question. If your mother gave up her citizenship does that make you a non citizen? I may not be an expert in law but I do have more common sense than most and as such I know that if your mother gives up her rights it does not effect your rights to citizenship. Do you really believe that all the Republicans would allow Obama to even be considered for the office of President if he did not have ligit citizenship? Let me remind you that during the race for the white house it was John Mc Cain that said ” we don’t agree with all of Mr. Obama’s veiws but let me be very clear he is a citizen and as such we will treat him with respect” I was impressed when Mr. McCain said that it showed a lot of class on his part. According to our laws there is a big differance between some one that migrates here from another country and gains his or her citizenship and some one that has a parent or parents born here in the states or on USA ground and that is why some one that is not a natural citizen can not be president. And just so you understand what I mean by USA ground let me clarify. Any and all USA military bases are US ground whether in our borders or out side our borders. I know a man that was born to a military father who married a woman from Spain who gave birth on the USA base in Spain. He has a birth certificate that states he is a natural born citizen. I don’t know all of the details on Obama’s life nor do I care but I will say this. If you want to waste your days chacing conspiracy theories about President Obama than good for you, but you will never convince me or most the peole that read this that our President is somehow not a citizen because his father was not born in this country or that his mother
    “according to the conspiracy nuts” gave up her status as a USA citizen.

  58. 58 Cyril Jun 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    I usually don’t comment on comments in my Blog.

    But regarding the many incorrect statements made about who is a US citizen, I am in the position where I can give you a definitive answer that anyone can verify with any immigraton lawyer.

    Is US citizen anyone born in the USA, US territories or any US military base even if his parents are non US citizens, foreigners living abroad or in the US legally or illegally. (a child born in the US of illegal aliens is a US citizen). Conclusion # 1. You don’t need to have a US parent to be a US citizen at birth (fyi, to have a child born US citizen doesn’t give the right to any parent to become US citizen. The child will have to reach the age of 18, but not later han 21, to sponsor his parents to become US residents -green card holders- not US citizens)

    Is US citizen anyone born with at least 1 parent US citizen wherever he is born in the world. Conclusion # 2. You don’t need to be born in the US, US territory or military base to become a US citizen.

    For one parent to give up US citizenship doesn’t remove US citizenship to any child, spouse, brother, sister, etc.

    All persons US citizens at birth can fill any political position in the US. All naturalized citizens (those who became US citizens after birth) can occupy any political position, including Vice President of the USA, but not the function of President.

    Examples of political personalities who can be Vice President but not President. Henry Kissinger, Arnold Scwarzenegger because they became US citizens, but were not at birth (theyare like me Naturalized US citizens),

  59. 59 Jeff Nicklus Jun 23rd, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Just my ….,

    If my Mother gave up HER citizenship that would have nothing to do with me what so ever.

    If you will read what I said: “If Obama is indeed a Natural Born Citizen, who has never surrendered his citizenship to become an Indonesian Citizen or had his legal guardian (his Mother) surrender his citizenship,” In other words if his Mother, or legal guardian, surrendered his citizenship then he is no longer a Citizen. My question is, and admittally I do not know the answer to this is, once a person surrenders his/her American Citizenship can that person come back at some later date and regain that citizenship?

    Further, I have no idea whether Obama’s Mother surrendered her citizenship or not ….. and really could care less. I get back to my original statement ….. why doesn’t Obama show his birth certificate and end the controversy?

    Personally, I do believe Obama is a natural born citizen, however, I do also believe he should have to prove his citizenship status.

    Over & Out,


  60. 60 Harley Davidson Jul 30th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    Nice things have been mentioned I like it.
    Carrol spncr

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