For more than 50 years, there have been no significant changes in the design of the disc brake. You already know that the 360 Brake System utilizes a circular piston and pads activated by hydraulic pressure to deliver 360 degrees of braking power to the rotor. Since 1 year the company offers a new version of its brake with a new grooved and vented rotor offering superior airflow to the brake. Few know that the new system was tested in controlled conditions against a rigorous testing protocol based on the FM VSS 122 DOT test, and in some instances exceeded this protocol by over 100%. But I know that you have a lot of other questions. For example. Data about stopping distance? What about heat? Can I install it myself? What model bikes will the brake work with? How long the pads last? Etc… 360 Brake created a new website page where all these questions are answered. To learn more jump to 360 Brake FAQ.
19 Responses to “The New 360 Brake. How Does It Work?”
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Nice to see 360 get things straightened out- I know we grilled them pretty hard on this forum, but the revisions look very promising, and the look is still cool. I’ll do a set on my bobber, as long as they meet DOT standards.
You technically specific guys can do the calcs but on the surface it looks like their legal eagle helped with the writing on the facts as it covers all but details little. You can see the obvious changes that identified heat as a previous problem thus the changes in my opinion of Rev. 1 but if tested in controlled testing, (always liked that one from most that to me says its meets minimum but ride in controlled atmospheres only) and not in real world stopping conditions based on upset conditions fully acknowledging 360 is not solitairy here, have you really identified what it is and is not and can and can not do in conditions that when ridden do occur.
It is still a closed braking system that may be susceptible to heat and the trapping of dust and possibly lesser braking/stopping ability as a result. It looks cool and I’ve used less and even no front brake but I would go in with as it is what it is and will not give you the stopping power/results of multi piston performance brake system just two different worlds in my opinion. Would run it on a chop with me considering its possible limits and my riding style but would not personally use it on big bagger with big riders/passengers as pictured on site more loads more concerns no matter the product. My thoughts based on read only.
Grayhawk
Clarifying the facts I refer to are the faq questions/answers on their site
Sorry Cyril, you’re usually better than this. It sounds like 360 Brake just sent you a fluff PR piece and you published it as news. Bad idea.
As for the 360 product…
The FAQ on the 360 is lame. It evades and doesn’t answer questions in an honest and direct manner.
How about just stating the obvious – that it’s not going to stop as well as a regular brake/rotor setup, and it is always going to have issues with heat and fade, because it’s a smaller thermal mass, and has heat buildup issues that a non-enclosed rotor will never have.
IMO, it was a cool idea that wasn’t really anything new – OEM’s never did it because they do a lot of engineering to determine the size that rotors need to be. Putting a 5″ rotor on a big bike was never done because they knew it wasn’t sound engineering.
The “passed some of the FMVSS122 tests by 100%” is meaningless – which tests? Some of those are about brake level pressure and other such, who cares if it passed those?
Honestly, people are smarter than this press release and FAQ treats them. Just be up front and tell it like it is… we all know it’s inferior in performance to a standard rotor… why keep hiding that fact? Just put the actual data out there and those who are willing to compromise performance for looks can make that decision in an informed manner.
Mike, you sound like you have an agenda. I read the FAQ and I am quite satisfied by the answers. You must be a competitor.
There is no such thing as a free lunch ; any fool can turn kinetic energy into thermal energy, the tricky bit is getting rid of it.
However, since it will be fitted to ‘bikes that no-one actually does any miles on, and only need to brake in bar car-parks or before steering into a bend that might show up how totally embarassing the handling is, the heat dissipation won’t be an issue, and the people who are stupid enough to buy it will be too embarassed to actually complain – because they actually knew it would be useless before they bought it.
Nice business if you can get it !
This is another pointless product designed for pointless motorcycles that have no practical use except as a pedestal for the rider who thinks people are watching him in admiration, or has a convenient shop-window in which to admire his profile.
Hey, maybe this explains why no-one is buying these kind of ‘bikes any more !
Hey Newtonian. Is your first name Isaac? Did you ever try one? I don’t think so or you would have stated it here.
Hey Guys: I do not know who any of you are( because you don’t seem to use your real name, or contact us) , but I doubt you own, or have ridden a bike with a 360 brake. None the less, I appreciate your comments, though often they are not correct, or at the least poorly supported.
We have a new and innovative Brake product, and yes it is different than what you have been using for many years. In fact, it is so different, many of you say” it doesn’t work” without ever getting on one.
What new product as it was first introduced never evolved and and got better ? The AMF Harley? Or tire technolgy? Brakes have not had a significant change in many years, and the 360 Brake is offering that now. Do you still own Beta, or VHS?
Fact: the size limits mechanically, what the brake can do, it does not out perform high performance braking systems, nor do we sell it to do so. That is why we offer 2 sizes of the brake, for better application fitment. Size, weight, speed, skill, all come into calculation.
Fact: Braking is all about heat dissipation, and or absorption, we have a unique and patent protected method of doing that.
Fact: Mike from above said the FMVSS122 is kind of useless. He is kinda right, and unless you have read it, or performed it, you will have no idea what it is. He says handle pressure is useless, tell that to a rider with arthritis. Stopping distances are used as a baseline, but the repeatability segments answers more about fade, and recovery, We did not write the test, it is a government certification method and a tool the industry uses uses.
Oh, and by the way, which of your aftermarket products are DOT approved? do you know?
Ok, which brake system sites publish stopping data?
Fact: It does work, there are hundreds being used currently, and we have multiple customers with over 15,000 miles on them. I ride my Softail every day with front and rear 360 brakes. I did 500 miles this past weekend.
Fact: 5 bikes owned by Hamsters rode in with those brakes to Sturgis in 2008, some with at least a 1200 mile ride behind them.
Fact: There are many testimonials from people, and builders, riding the brake on their bikes, but every time we publish them, you blogger’s discredit the Author. That is not fair, What makes your opinion, or unchallengeable knowledge, better than theirs? Many of them, are and have been well known builders with years of experience.
Fact: The 360 brake is in Germany and going through TUV testing. It is rigorous, and we will have data, hopefully soon. But the Europeans are more interested in using the cool Brake, than discrediting it.
Fact: there have now been multiple installs on metric sport bikes, these guys are loving it as well.
Fact: It is cooler than shit, and really cleans up your wheels, and the look of your ride.
Here’s the deal: We have a product that is unique. We are building a reputable company in the motorcycle industry. Love it or Hate it, we intend to grow the Niche` while penetrating the mainstream motorcycle market. We believe that our product will be OEM in the near future with a mainstream manufacturer.
This being said, we hope you try the product before bashing it again, and give this new technology a fair chance. We are often surprised when we open our minds to change.
Respectfully,
360 Brake
Dale
Well stated Dale…there are so many naysayers in the Big Twin market it is ridiculous. Maybe if people pushed out a positive attitude we wouldn’t be in the !@#$%^ sandwich we are in right now. It is called old and grumpy…we need some new blood in this market! I’ve been hearing the same crap for 15 years now….if you don’t like it get out
they work..they look good. and any dolt with half a brain can see the design and execution kind of resemble a centerofrce clutch or standard clutch in a car..some of those are capable of holding 700 to 1000 ft. lbs of tourqe..same principle.but boy do they clean up a wheel
Hi Dale,
The old owners of 360 may have exagerated the potential of the 360 brake. You have a bit of an uphill battle to set the record straight
If I understand you correctly The 360 is adequate, but it is not intended as a high performance brake.
Is it true that your brakes pass FMVSS, IMVSS or TUV standardss?
The question then is are those standards relevent to the type of riding your custemer is doing.
You say your brake is innovative. I do not know, but you say you have a patent, but I never see a patent number referenced.
I tried one of the old 360 brakes and it was OK for a show bike, but good not for a daily rider. You have a new company, I think everyone is skeptical.
.
Jeremy,
I am not a competitor – I have absolutely nothing to do with the manufacture or sale of braking products. In the context of this discussion, I’m just a biker and buyer of bike parts, period.
However, I am a smart person. When someone puts up BS answers, I feel insulted. For example, 360 makes the claim that they exceeded the FMVSS tests “in some cases by 100%”. That sounds like it’s saying their product is twice as good as the gov’t requires. But as I pointed out, it depends which tests they are talking about. If we are talking about the brake lever pressure test, it’s meaningless, in terms of braking performance. But maybe they execeeded the brake handle pressure test minimum requirement, and they make the claim they did, and those of lower intellect like yourself read it and think “wow, that is a great product, and it is 100% better performing than the DOT regs!”. And you go about your life thinking that it’s great, when you don’t have the right information.
The bottom line is that the rotor in a braking system is a thermal battery – it stores heat. The less mass it has, the worse it performs. 360 talks about how great their product is, but you simply can’t get around the laws physics.
Also, their statement that a pad that grips the rotor in all places is superior to OEM pad/caliper setups, I believe to be incorrect. I would say there is a LOT more engineering in an OEM brake setup for a bike than this one.
There are a lot of folks out there who just don’t like this 360 brake, and IIRC the first units shipped had a lot of problems. If Performance Machine or Brembo or Baer or any OEM puts out a shoddy brake product, they get their asses sued. So you can bet they put the most effort into this most basic of parts. If your 360 brake overheats and fails when you are riding down Deals Gap in July on your Fat Boy, who are you gonna get satisfaction from?
Same with other parts… how many OEM Harley frames crack? It’s not really an issue is it? So how come BBC has frame cracking issues? Answer – they don’t have the engineering and testing that a Harley does. They wing it.
I am all about innovation in the business, but I’d never compromise on safety – and brakes are about the most basic of safety items. And if the brake manufacturer isn’t going to be up front about the reality of their parts, and is going to create the image of being better than OEM when in some important ways it’s not, why would I trust anything they say? I wouldn’t.
I think the new company is victim of the negative image of the 1st 360 Brake Company. The actual owners have nothing to do with the 1st company. I have a friend who has a pair of these brakes on his bike. I ride a lot with him. Never said he had a problem. He told me than another friend of his had a problem but it was discovered and admitted that the brake was incorrectly installed by a dealer. Mike, why anyone wou;d trust what you say? You didn’t prove anything and you sound like you are having an agenda, But you will not admit it. Why don’t you state your real full name? I am always suspicious of people like you who attack others but hiding behind a computer.
Hey Mike: Glad you mentioned it,
I personally rode Deals gap, tail of the dragon very aggressively on two of our bikes,
an 03 Softail and an 08 Victory, both with 360 Brakes front and rear. I not only kept up with the expert who filmed and rides it everyday, I was pushing him, yes, with 360 brakes last summer.
For those of you who do not know about it, deals gap, Tail of the Dragon, is
US 129 in Tennessee. It has 318 turns in 11 miles, and yes it is fun. But I would not do it without brakes.
Don’t take my word for it, we have it on video: see it two places, on our site
http://www.360brake.com/dragon.html
Or
http://www.tailofthedragon.com and scroll down the left side. We are not a sponsor, but they like our product and had fun filming it.
For the non believers, please go to 360brake.com – look at the videos, and consider the information provided.
Like many products, it is not for every one. If it is not for you, thanks for considering it anyways.
Happy riding
Dale
After 9 different 360 Brake Postings on Cyril’s Blog Site for the 360 brake in the last year and a half or so Dale Needleman seems to be needling back if you will even though he states he appreciates the comments. Which is understandable I guess after all the postings and comments.
Because, (Joe Maybe Potential Customer), does not use their so called full name as in if all the 99.5% of the rest of us that do put our full name on the blog; you Dale or anyone else would know who we are anyway or like it matters, not. You and 360 Brake combined have had 9 separate postings here to get the facts and points in line with your position and product, there may not be a better venue in its entirety, bad comments and all. Do not be short sited and get personal on those uninformed, lacking knowledge or negative to your points.
Dale further suggesting we have not supported our comments/opinions if you will. Last time I looked the product seller was the one needing to provide supporting info or factually dismiss specific wrong interpretes by specific fact not generalities or legal E’s?
If you use a blog as a major point of advertisement for your product or in this case to specifically address issue concerns purported solved by a revised product then roll with it and address the questions/concerns that always come with an innovative new product especially one that has had concerns in it original released version for public use as it just happens to be one of the two most safety conscious products on a bike – good tires and good brakes.
Point may be if you are the President of 360 Brake, I am just guessing its you as you did not put your full name either, You may be better served then your last approach above.
Further noting supporters such as Rebecca stating all the old and grumpy in the industry should just get out, that may reduce your potential customer base a bit and not serve your interest either.
Although I do not think I was bashing just reading and posting based on my read of the info on your site whether you agree or not that is how I interpreted the language noted on your site.
A-1 gave you a good go for that any dolt should see and he said it works and based on his prior postings he has been pretty credible in past postings. Your best testomonial yet.
Are any/all of your product dealers are giving out your disclaimer on installation if they sell your product, noting that faq’s from your site seemed very clear. As all liability referenced in your disclaimer seemingly shifts to the installer or am I reading that wrong. Also does your training so noted to all product seller/installers of your product include physical hands on training by your trainer or just the installation sheet and installation by a professional installation technician?
Disclaimer Below from your site:
360 Brake wants to insure that all units are installed correctly for the safety of the consumer. 360 Brake does not believe the installation of this brake is a simple bolt on application. Installation requires the knowledge base of a professional. If the consumer insists on installing the 360 Brake without the use of a professional installation technician, we will require that the customer sign the document below and in doing so voids their warranty.
Waiver document Link as referenced:
http://www.360brake.com/pdfs/Customer_Self-Installation_Waiver_Rev1-15-08.pdf
Questions:
Do you have a list of professional installation technicians qualified/certified by 360 Brake to install your product? If you do you may consider posting on your site so we can see distributors/sellers/approved installers, etc. So we know who is authorized and as such installation by same will retain the 360 warranty of product upon installation. If it is there my apology in advance.
How many of the newest version brakes have you sold to date and are their any of the original version product on retailers shelf and if so how does one tell the difference in new improved version and original?
In respect to the OEM’s that are going to use your product on their production bikes is the onus on them to obtain and include the DOT certification or will 360 Brake be doing that? Assuming you are referencing DOT certified production OEM bikes?
Haven’t read or seen referenced any info on your brake in respect to water being or not being able to be trapped in your vented enclosure and do you see any issues there or does present, future or previous testing include tests under wet conditions?
Do you make the brake and its components in-house if not are any or all of its parts or manufacturing performed inside/outside the US, if so where?
If an OEM Dealer’s service department installs your brake on one of their bikes still under their warranty is that OEM bike warranty voided or is that a question for them?
I do like the clean look and idea but am always one to want a product especially one with safety implications to be thoroughly in house and road/real world tested prior to release to Joe Customer no more no less.
wow… some of you have way too much time on your hands. move on.
I think it is funny that Mike bashes 360 saying that the big boys must do alot more engineering or they get their asses sued. Really? You think so. Look on the blog today. Harley recalls 12,000 bikes due to a defect. hahaha. Nice logic Mike. You would have thought all their engineering would have caught that.
I think it’s a cool product. Is it all things to all people, of course not. Everyone knows that lawyers put disclosures all over everything because some jack ass out there will sue saying he didn’t know any better. These guys aren’t any different than Brembo or PM in that regard. Why do you think your lawn mower instruction manual tells you not to use it as a hedge trimmer? Because some moron cut his damn arm off doing it.
These disscussions on 360 brake are good only for the fact that it keeps beating the product name into the general public’s heads. A 360 brake works amazing, IF it is installed PERFECTLY. and I hate to say it, but inorder to do this, you need a lathe, plain and simple. I have “fixed” quite a few 360 brake installs, and I can assure you all, that once set up properly, the thing does its job. It’ll stop the bike, and look better than any other Brake system while doing it. Customers shoud know that this is a custom product for custom bikes, and people should not expect it to be more than what it is. As long as this is understood , and the install goes right, the cutomers are happy. Very happy. People who should own this brake are people who like to be different, and have the desire to have a clean simple and beautiful bike without big rotors and calipers cluttering up the front end.
I will be the first to admit that I believe form should follow function, but the 360 brake is a product that is so cool, it is worth looking into. If anyone would like to hear more about this from me and my experiences selling a great deal of 360 brakes over the last year and a half, feel free to contact me.
My only discrepency with the 360 barake instructions is their break in proceedure, which is to me a very important part to making the product function properly after installation.
It looks like it works???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHqgiJJnTrE