Harley-Davidson. Made In America. In Thailand. In Singapore. And Tomorrow In India?

HarleyInIndia18 months ago, it was a ” mangoes-for-bikes” negotiation? Let India export freely its mangoes to the US and we will let you import some Hogs. New Harley-Davidson President and CEO Matt Levatich is going to India where he will participate to the SIAM conference and will evaluate a strategy to import some models in the country (it is rumored at the end of 2009), will probably continue negotiations for the right to open some retail outlets (in 2010) and evaluate the possibility of building an assembly plant (2010 or 2011) to escape the heavy fees and taxes on imported CBU’s (Completely Built Units). If Harley would be given the right to open such a facility it would be its 3rd overseas plant after Thailand and Singapore. Are we going to see a time when most Harley-Davidson models will be built abroad at cheap labor price and then imported in the US for a fat margin?

72 Responses to “Harley-Davidson. Made In America. In Thailand. In Singapore. And Tomorrow In India?”

  1. 1 Kirk Perry Aug 23rd, 2009 at 8:50 am

    I don’t care where Harley makes them as long as they look like #9.

    It looks as though H-D® left the front headlight off, for owner customization. I like it? What is it? “F” head (inlet over exhaust) or a flathead?

    Are there going to be anymore of those?

  2. 2 BikerMarc Aug 23rd, 2009 at 9:17 am

    “Made in America”

    Rest in Peace.


  3. 3 Christopher McMinn Aug 23rd, 2009 at 10:19 am

    I never thought I would see this happen. So far it has not , but to make it affordable for those countries it only makes sense . However with countries like those ,you can bet H-D is gearing up for some kind of parts production for US bikes

  4. 4 Christopher McMinn Aug 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 am

    I would like to add , it seems these folks are a little confused about where to pilot this fine relic .
    H-D will have to send rider trainers to these countries too !!!!

  5. 5 Jim C Aug 23rd, 2009 at 11:00 am

    HD building bikes abroad at cheap labor prices and then importing them back into the states? That will never happen-right? Wrong,Harley will be doing just that if they thought they could get away with it. without US customer back lash. Remember the plant in York? The average American is getting brain washed into thinking that it is ok to buy something made in China,Thailand,ect. Everybody thinks it doesn’t hurt to buy little things here and there made somewhere else. In fact it does hurt and the sooner we begin to think that way,the better off we will all be. We are steadily giving away our manufacturing and that includes our training,ideas,machinery,jobs and money. Every passing year,it is getting worse and worse as far as trade deficits.
    As far as importing them into the US at a fat margin,well,they won’t be able to do that as we won’t be able to afford them when we are all working at Mcdonalds,ect. Some of you may think I am full of crap but it is happening and it has been happening for the last 20 years or so. When there is a company that goes out and they have an auction for the machinery-did you know that a lot of that machinery finds it’s way on a boat going to someplace like China? It happens every day and we are letting it happen.
    here’s a suggestion for you,next time you are in your local HD dealership,let them know how you feel about HD thinking about building bikes overseas. They could just as easily be built here rather than over there. If the guys in India want them bad enough they will pay the price for them.

  6. 6 BD Aug 23rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Of course this is going to happen. Actually it already is as far as Genuine HD parts go.Start reading the packages(small print) As taxes go up , wages go up , benefits go up these company’s loyalty is to the Bottom Line and only that. They will start slowly as to not rock the boat so to speak. First more components , then Sub Assemblies (motors , tranmissions etc) Finally the complete bikes. This will take a few years but you can bet it’s coming.

  7. 7 FREDP Aug 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    I remember the days when we threw rice under japanese bikes and told the owners they had a bad oil leak. I guess payback in a few years is gonna be “curry” under our Harleys as an “oil leak” joke!!!!!!!!!

  8. 8 winterman Aug 23rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Is history going to continue this way? Who is goingf to buy this shit here when no one in this country has a job because everything is being made cheaper some where else?

  9. 9 FUJI Aug 23rd, 2009 at 7:20 pm


    My sentiments exactly.
    Welcome to the new world order. Sad ! but true. We are out numbered by the masses. willing to work for nada,
    Harley Davidson not soon if ever will return to the position that it has enjoyed in the US in resent years.

    Change is hard to accept but world trade has a strong arm on all of us and the Co will have to claw for every sale that it gets.

    When the core of your sales is disappearing one must look beyond the shores. HD had to do it back in the mid 1930’s to survive so it’s not new territory.

  10. 10 FUJI Aug 23rd, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    Corporate America some but not all , Unions some but not all have sold us out in the past for their own greed and when the economy starts to return some of corporate America will posture itself again for the same walk and talk.

    I personally find it sad that we bow down or bend to our knees to support a corporation because of a fad, regardless of true need. I like sugar but there are more ways to get sugar than from being beat by the cane.

  11. 11 Sam Aug 23rd, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    The greedy unions are destroying manufacturing in this country.

  12. 12 David Aug 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    Sam your right and what we need to see are all the union people moving overseas and starting unions over there which will push prices up and manufacturing can then move back to the US. By then we will have all starved to death or burned our houses to stay warm and we can move back into rock and mud houses and the process starts all over again!!!

  13. 13 David Aug 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Sam, Actually its really all the Lawyers suing for people who want something for nothing because they fell down or had a bad day! I dont know it may have all started with the asshole suing for hot coffee in his lap(he didnt know what hot was or that “SHIT Happens”.

  14. 14 gecko Aug 24th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    When you buy “APPLE” you can read “assembled in China” “designed by Apple in California”

    next step for HD “assembled in India” 🙂

  15. 15 harry Aug 24th, 2009 at 3:06 am

    This is sad, really sad; really haven’t got anything more to say about it other than Harleys should be built in America and nowhere else. Just my two cents for what it’s worth…

  16. 16 MDK Aug 24th, 2009 at 6:37 am

    Hey, IMO since the early 90’s it’s been all about the money, patenting their bar and shield, sound, etc…… what a bunch of goobers, so this was inevitable. Look at their excessive pricing, just like the auto industry and now they are paying the price, but our current administration will probably give them some cake to pay for the plants. Hey I’m just and imbecile, what do I know?

  17. 17 fisk Aug 24th, 2009 at 7:44 am

    parts have been made out of the u.s. for at least 38 years – i found the throttle body support bracket in china last month – a look at johnson controls sourcing shows the future for hd – who cares? if it makes money it’s good

  18. 18 Fab Kevin Aug 24th, 2009 at 7:46 am

    “The greedy unions are destroying manufacturing in this country.”

    There are thousands of non-union manufacturing plants closing in the US every year, because no one cares where their good are made – just that they’re the cheapest. Quality means nothing, and American jobs are sacrificed daily, for the greed of corporate shareholders.

  19. 19 Kip Aug 24th, 2009 at 7:56 am

    What is really sad, China basically owns the USA. Why does big business and politics always sell out to someone overseas, WHERE IS OUR BACK BONE! I won’t ever buy a Harley that’s NOT AMERICAN MADE.

  20. 20 Greg Hoeve Aug 24th, 2009 at 8:23 am

    Kip, Then don’t buy a Harley at all. You are all fools for supporting or caring about this shitwad company at all. If Harley Davidson “cared” about America at all, it would close up all of their plants up north, tell the Union dirtbags where to go, and set up shop in RIGHT TO WORK STATES. Hell, the automotive companies are not suffering as a whole, just the ones who build in UNION states. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, etc. all have plants in the south where people are well paid and still competitive. Only UNION labor factories need bailout money. General Motors, Chrysler, and HD are not US made. They have higher import content than the “Foreign” companies do.

    Buy American, Buy a Nissan.

  21. 21 Michael Schacht Crocker Motorcycle Company Aug 24th, 2009 at 8:31 am

    For those of you who are disheartened by the news that Harley Davidson does not produce many parts in the USA anymore, you are upset over old news! This direction in HD’s manufacturing program has been in place and evolving for over 20 years and was able to be kept secret for many of them. HD is not any different then most manufacturers in America today, dealing with free trade and huge competition as they are competing in a global market. What once was a bottom line issue is now straight out survival mode. I am not defending HD or attacking them, I am just reminding you all that if purchase price is a factor, American companies are now scrambling to find ways to produce their products to be affordable, leaving them no choice but to search for lower cost labor and material. If you want to buy “Made in America” you will have no choice but to pay more. It only stands to reason that if you want better quality you pay for it. Things have always been the way. What do we really want?

  22. 22 Rodent Aug 24th, 2009 at 8:32 am

    Stop bitchin about it and do something about it…

  23. 23 big will Aug 24th, 2009 at 9:29 am

    PATRIOTS AWAKEN: As a long time bike shop owner, as many of you are too, I have seen many an American duped by buying chinsee, chinese repops. We were all talking around the shop’s happy hour the other night and decided it is decidedly unamerican to buy imported cars and imported items, UNLESS there is a special need for an import. All in all, everyone of you and your customers can make a difference for America, buy American made items at every reasonable opportunity. Take a little time to see where something is made when you pick it up off the shelf. If it say China, I say fuck them. Its cheap shit anyway. Keep looking until you find something made in the USA. As for all you POS that buy American products, and ship them to China to copy, to sell back to Americans, pretending they are as good as the real deal, there’s a special place in the sewer for you.

    Copying a good American product in Chinnnnna and sending it back to us at a cheaper price just doops people, its a sort of a fraud, many a good bike part from the US has been copied abroad, only to leave someone here upset, or worse yet stranded, and is an un-American to do.

    As for Jim C, you are right on in your thoughts. AS for HD, their problems are so serious and run soo deep, that its hard to put a finger on what exactly will help them. If you want to tell someone about your thoughts about buying american only, tell the motor co, not the dealer. ITS AN AMERICAN THING TO DO, BUYING AMERICAN PRODUCTS AND REJECTING THE REST. TRY IT, YOUR JOB MAY DEPEND ON IT. Big Will

  24. 24 Rebecca Aug 24th, 2009 at 10:39 am

    HELLLLOOOO! HD has been buying and manufacturing overseas for 20 years. Take a peek a the label in you HD leather jacket…Pakistan…hard parts from China…wake up…start reading labels people, this is nothing new.

  25. 25 FREDP Aug 24th, 2009 at 10:51 am

    Kip, you would be VERY upset if you knew exactly how many parts on a H-D are not made in america. They can not put a Made in America label on the bikes, only ASSEMBLED in America would be allowed because of low american made parts on the bike. If you want American Made, you all got to pay the price. We put ourselves there.

  26. 26 Gerry Aug 24th, 2009 at 11:01 am

    People in America better wake up – Once our manufacturing plants go to other countries in the world, we will have no jobs, no food, no houses, nothing . . their will be no work . . . Wake Up America!!! This country should not be ran on greed . . . you can’t take it with you!!
    Think about the future of America . . . . . .(for our children, grandchildren and the rest of our lives) Harley’s need to stay in America!!!!

  27. 27 just my opinion Aug 24th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    The bigger problem with this country is that we are a give away nation. We allow people to collect food stamps that don’t need them. Half of those people collecting food stamps sell them for a bag of weed or beer money. We allow people that are able to work to collect wellfare and disability. We put people in prison, then pay a company to run that prison at the rate of 40-50 thousand per prisoner. And what happens to the families of those prisonors most end up on wellfare because daddy is not selling drugs and supporting them anymore, so we support them as well. And then there is the illegal aliens, they work for less money, yes it’s true, but thats not the problem,the problem is that they don’t pay taxes. But who’s fault is that the worker or the guy using them for cheap labor and not collecting that tax? It goes even deeper because the children of these workers coming from mexico and other countries are recieving free schooling and that includes free lunchs. Their wives give birth to more children and pay no hospital bills. What harm is in that? Who do you think pays for that service? Our taxes do. That is just one of the problems with our current health care system. So what is the answer? I say its easy, seal the borders first. Legalize those that are already here so that we can tax the hell out of them as we are being taxed. If they are caught comitting crimes take their money and personal wealth and send them back across the border with their family. Let it be known that we will only take honest and hard working folks not the free loaders that are coming here to bleed our systems. After sealing the borders than every one on food stamps and wellfare should be re-evaluaded and if able should be forced to work. If the unemployment office did its job and matched people with jobs then we could tell these freeloaders here is a job take it, and you are off the system. Don’t take it, and you are off the system. Then buy American so that there is plenty of work for those that need it. Ploblem solved NEXT.

  28. 28 MDK Aug 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Them having suppliers all over the world doesn’t excuse the fact that their claim to fame is American Made or the fact that the continue to charge the same premium price that product. Not cool!

  29. 29 Larry and Janine Aug 24th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    In as much as we bulk at the fact that the American industry is fading away, I can’t help but feel the unions are fulling responsible for chasing us out of our towns and cities and finally our own country.. For years they fed us promises of security, they’ve literally detroyed the Mom/Pop business, who used to be the bread and butter of our true existense.. I hold them largely responsible for our countries part in the economic delemma.. Granted I’m not old enough to reflect back at the times before the “unions” but all their promises for job security, doesn’t seem to be very effective these days.. Perhaps now is the very time this country should be concentrating on cleaning house, take a few steps backwards (say 35 – 40 yrs. ago) study what made us tick, and restructure our society based on the American way, for the Americans.. Put exporting on the back burner for awhile. Just long enough to rebuild the road that raps around the U.S. and bring back the long lost manufacturing, distributing, and suppliers to the States. We need to build the inner strength this country once thrived on. Not the dependense of the outside world.. Let them start depending on us again.. Granted, reliving the past sounds utterly obsurd, but look at whats happened to us, right before our very eyes.. Harley-Davidson, the very company that vowed to always remain “made in America”, is forced to seek assistance elsewhere in order to stay alive. It seems to me that H-D should be the ones to put their boots firmly down and start making the necessary changes (no matter what those changes may be) to keep this company solely in our country.. LET THEM COME TO US if they want a H-D so badly. And you know, if they want it badly enough, they’ll coming running.. But then, what do I know. This is only my opinion !

  30. 30 just my opinion Aug 24th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Most of you seem to be missing the point. The very reason most companies are forced to take their businesses elsewhere is the taxes and regulations placed on these companies. If you are pissed that the chemical companies are leaving blame EPA. if you are upset that the farmers and the beef industry is leaving blame FDA. If you wish you had more customers blame wellfare , because if those freeloaders had to work they would have money to spend on your products and you would pay less in taxes because you would not be supporting them. The list goes on and on. Our government is killing the american industry. How can you blame a company for going out side of our borders to manufacture when it cost so much to do it here?
    Sure the unions are part of the problem but the biggest problem is taxes and regulations imposed on the business owner. We have to stop giving to those that refuse to work at the exspense of those that create the jobs. And we need to shrink the government not increase its size. Government workers are the servants of WE THE PEOPLE so why is it that we are serving them? Wake up people Harley is only doing what they have to do too survive. Next time you go to walmart remember you were on here bashing Harley for not being american made. Remember the gas prices shot up to almost 5 dollars a gallon, americans stop driving as much. What happened? prices came down. We can and do control our own destiny but we must first be aware of what is happening around us. Most americans don’t care what happens to their neighbor. But when the job lost is theirs they want to cry and whine about it. If this whole country stopped buying products other than american made for just one month the prices of all that crap would be 10 cents on the dollar. And half of those companies bleeding the US economy by bringing in that crap would fold. Remember you can vote more than one way. Everytime you buy american you are voting for an american job and every time you buy chinese or other you vote to end an american job. When the job lost is yours don’t expect others to care when you did not care about costing them their job. We will reap what we sew.

  31. 31 Harley Davidson Junkie Aug 24th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    I for one am glad that Harley Davidson is taking business over to other countries. India is going to have the world’s largest population one day and we need to do what we can now in order to get a foothold over there before everything thinks that bikes from Honda are where it’s at.

    It would be disappointing if they established manufacturing facilities over there and then started importing motorcycles here though.

  32. 32 FUJI Aug 24th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Larry and Janine

    As I stated earlier Harley Davidson has been in this situation before.

    Alfred Rich Child HARLEY DAVIDSON SELLS REP sells , the blueprints, tool and dies and machinery to Sankyo to produce HD motorcycles under the name ‘Rikuo’, for $32,320 and royaltys. THE REAL STORY THEY MADE IT THROUGH THE DEPRESSION ALONE YOU BE THE JUDGE.

    .1932 Sankyo sent representatives to Milwaukee and arranged to purchase the entire 1200 cc factory. Times were lean in the U.S. then, DEPRESSION TIME and Harley Davidson agreed to the deal.

    In 1933, the factory was broken up, sent to the coast, shipped to Japan, and rebuilt at Kita-Shinagawa, Tokyo.

    Several of Harley’s technicians went along to help erect the plant and set up the machinery. Harley provided all the necessary tools, dies, presses, and [ heat-treating secrets.] The licensing fee paid by Sankyo was spread out over the next four years. this is part of the monies that helped Harley survive the depesssion.

    Rich Child moved to ” China ” and became a salesman of Harleys there during the war.

    My point , this is not new territory for the Co

  33. 33 Dave Aug 24th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    Many posts take issue with the move overseas, and rightly so.

    Companies talk of the need to “go offshore” to provide attractive returns and stay competitive, but in Harley-Davidson’s case, it’s quite a stretch, given recent press releases.

    Specifically, they’ve admitted their York plant is not competitive, and may not be sustainable…while investing in more machinery, equipment, and physical plant. Point being, instead of focusing on operational efficiencies and elimination of waste, they capitalized it., threw money at their problem, instead of solving their problems.

    Next? “…the company mistakenly thought the recession would push buyers to more lower-prided Harley-Davidson models…increased production of Sportsters…inventory problem…” Oh really? Amazing that this is the thinking at the very top of a $ 5 billion company. Let’s see…never mind what happens in automobile, RV, trailer, etc., boating industries…we’re different?

    Finally, look at a picture of a 1965 FLH1200, and a 2009 Road King. What has really changed?

    H-D is symptomatic of other American companies, where the lemmings of corporate leadership follow trends mindlessly, for show, masking the degree of ineptitude present in corporate governance at board of director, officer, and organizational leadership levels. The American worker is as capable as, if not better than, any in the world. Proof? we are about 25% of global GDP, with about 5% of world population. It ain’t the workers, or the workforce.

    It’s the lemmings…

  34. 34 FREDP Aug 25th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    Just my opinion, EPA FDA comment. I guess you have not researched this country’s big businesses influence on you and your kids future for the all mighty dollar.

    Up until the 1970s, no country had imposed any meaningful oversight of the tens of thousands of chemicals that had entered the marketplace since World War II. Then, in 1976, the U.S. Congress passed the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), which granted the government the authority to track industrial chemicals and to place restrictions on any that proved harmful to humans or the environment. Because the United States was the world’s preeminent economic power, other major chemical producers-Germany, France, and Britain-soon brought their national regulations into line with TSCA so as not to lose the U.S. market. Shortly thereafter, Japan and other countries hoping to conduct trade with the West also had to adopt the central principles of the law as their own. Thus, America set the rules for chemical regulation across the globe.
    But TSCA came with an enormous loophole, a caveat leveraged into it by the powerful chemical industry: every chemical already on the market before 1979 was exempted from the law’s primary screening requirements. Three decades after TSCA came into being, 95 percent of all chemicals in circulation have never undergone any testing for toxicity or their impact on the environment. The extent to which TSCA has failed to regulate hazardous substances is now evident in the bio-monitoring results in Europe and America.
    One result of this industry-friendly screening is that the EPA has banned only five chemicals since its inception in 1970. For a brief time the banned list included a sixth substance: asbestos. In 1989, the EPA prohibited nearly all uses of asbestos, which it classified as a “known carcinogen.” The chemical industry challenged the agency, however, and in 1990 a federal court vacated the ban, asserting that the EPA had neither met TSCA’s requirement that the conclusive dangers of the chemical should exceed its perceived usefulness nor demonstrated that the ban was the “least burdensome alternative” for eliminating the “unreasonable risk” of exposure. The EPA has not acted to ban a chemical since that decision, even though other countries have outlawed asbestos and numerous toxins that are still in use in the United States. (Since 2004, the E.U. has banned entire categories of hazardous chemicals from use in cosmetics, toys, electronics, and other consumer goods.) By making it easier to hang on to old chemicals than to develop new ones, TSCA provides no incentive for manufacturers to create less toxic alternatives. The absence of even minimal toxicity data insulates the industry from the normal supply-demand dynamic of the market; consumers, in other words, have no means of expressing their potential preference for a less toxic substitute.

    Chemical companies have spent lavishly to preserve these lax standards. Since 1996, the industry has contributed $47 million to federal election campaigns, and it pays about $30 million each year to lobbyists in Washington. Lynn Goldman, who served as assistant administrator for toxic substances at the EPA from 1993 to 1998, told me that she and her colleagues knew TSCA was largely ineffectual. “There were thousands of chemicals out there, and we didn’t know what they were. We weren’t able to get the data, weren’t able to assess the risks, nothing.” Goldman recalls a party held in Washington to commemorate TSCA’s twentieth anniversary. “Someone from the chemical industry got up to salute TSCA and said, ‘This is the perfect statute. I wish every law could be like TSCA.'”
    And I say,” I guess if you like to make money, you can afford not to eat or drink THAT STUFF we give to you “commoners” !
    Just food for thought. OOPS! No thank you, I’ll get my own food. STOP being naive about our businesses, and stop thinking its a union problem in this country. UNIONs have no where the lobbyist power or money to directly effect our lives as have the Industries.

  35. 35 Todd8080 Aug 28th, 2009 at 7:23 am

    I don’t claim to be an expert on world economics, but I do have eyes in my head.

    We’ve become a nation of pencil pushers where at the end of the day the average “worker” has produced absolutely nothing, yet still collects a paycheck each week.

    Our streets and highways are littered with Japanese cars and the few who still drive American cars are considered stupid or unfortunate by the rest.

    The U.S. trade deficit has gone from a surplus in 1991 (meaning we as a nation sold more than we bought) to a total deficit of $695.9 billion in 2008, the equivalent of every man, woman and child in the U.S. each sending $2,290 directly overseas, and that figure increases yearly.

    Our children worship the Japanese and all they produce. They’re indoctrinated at an early age with Pokémon, PlayStation, Japanese anime and numerous Japanese toys. By the time they reach their teens they have no interest in buying anything made in America.

    There are actually people who think buying a fake oriental Harley lookalike (like Honda’s Shadow or Kawasaki’s Vulcan) is no different from buying a real Harley, except that it’s a few dollars cheaper. There are even Americans who loudly proclaim “It doesn’t matter what you ride.”

    If we as a nation continue to blindly sell our souls for a handful of oriental trinkets, we are doomed. Wake up and support your own freakin’ country. Buy local, think national and f*ck global.

  36. 36 Tony Aug 28th, 2009 at 8:22 am

    What about the salesmen that work in Honda dealerships? Who are going to support them? Ride what you want to ride. Last I checked, it is still a free country. The American car companies were more than happy to make their junk before they felt threatened by the Japanese car companies. They didn’t care if their cars broke down after a few years, because they wanted us to keep buying. The unions are the problem with the car companies. More pay for less work is a losing proposition. Every time the unions renegotiate their contracts they ask for more pay & less work. How long do you think this will last? Bailing out the American car companies are like making the American tax payers buy a car they will never own. Either the greedy unions can negotiate new labor agreements to align pay and benefits to match those of workers at competitors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota or die. The American taxpayer should not be forced to pay for their greed. Don’t fool yourselt. The Wall Street Journal recently reported that last summer, Illinois Senator Barack Obama told officials in the Teamsters union that he favored ending the Independent Review Board (IRB) that was created in 1989 by the federal government to rid the union of organized crime. Tommy Vietor, a spokesman for Obama, confirmed the story, saying that the candidate believed that the IRB had “run its course” because “organized crime influence in the union has drastically declined.” The Teamsters subsequently endorsed Obama for president, in late February. If there’s any question as to why union toughs turned up at recent health care town halls and got violent, consider what they were gooning for: a $10 billion bailout for their mismanaged pensions at our expense. Buried on page 65 of the 1,017 pages of HR 3200, the House’s health care reform bill, and in a Senate bill as well, stands a $10 billion entitlement to keep pensions for unions like United Auto Workers as shiny and gold-plated as the day Detroit executives signed off on them. Steelworkers, municipal employees, teachers and other union retirees will benefit from what the bills call “Reinsurance Programs for Retirees.” The $10 billion cash infusion is intended to refinance Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Associations (VEBA) insurance to continue coverage for unions’ early retirees in restructurings. It’s nothing but another bailout for union-bankrupted industries that can’t sustain their contracts. In most of the private sector, companies cut back. They pay for what they buy. They scrimp. Unions are different. When things get bad, they want taxpayers to pay. And they demonize corporate profits. When profits are a dirty word, one man’s wealth is another man’s loss, and creating value is no longer recognized as a means of earning money. It’s no surprise that bailouts are the result. But there’s a problem with all this largesse — the poor and middle class who don’t get these fat pensions end up paying for them anyway. Back in February, President Obama praised unions for their “sacrifices” in the auto bailouts. We’ve yet to see taxpayers praised or thanked for their “sacrifices” in bailing out unions.
    Unions gave $52 million to elect Democrats in the last election. The link between bailouts and campaign cash couldn’t be clearer. Frankly, their “investment” has paid off handsomely.
    Part of their “return” includes GM and Chrysler shares that rightfully belonged to bondholders. Major provisions in the $787 billion stimulus are little more than union gifts. These include huge public works and infrastructure projects that hire exclusively union labor, and protectionist measures that reward unions at the cost of economic growth, such as Buy American provisions.
    In other bills they’ve gotten treaty-busting moves to halt Mexican trucks on U.S. roads, triggering $2.6 billion in retaliatory tariffs the rest of us must pay. They’ve also kept 46 million Colombians shut out of a U.S. free-trade treaty, costing us $1 billion in tariffs. Meanwhile, they’ve also won top spots in the Obama administration for union officials. Now they want another $10 billion in money set aside to cover their unfunded health care liabilities. This bailout tells us that their demands are insatiable. Is it any wonder the president’s health care bills are tanking along with the president’s own popularity? And that polls now show the public sees unions as too powerful? Until unions learn to live like the rest of the private sector, they will continue to be seen for what they are: a privileged class.

    But there are consequences to that. As the outrages grow, they will engender voter ill will that could endanger the Obama administration. The White House would be wise to stop coddling organized labor, one of the least popular institutions in American life.

  37. 37 Todd8080 Aug 28th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    “What about the salesmen that work in Honda dealerships? Who are going to support them? Ride what you want to ride. Last I checked, it is still a free country.”

    Screw Americans who pimp for the Japanese, they deserve to starve. When you have no choice but to buy cars, trucks, SUVs and motorcycles from the Japanese, then America won’t be a free country anymore, and that day’s coming fast.

    Of course you have the right to buy any country’s products you want, who ever said you didn’t? But I’m not talking about rights, I’m talking about what IS right. Keeping America strong by supporting American industry whenever possible isn’t just the right thing to do, it’s the smart thing to do.

    If Americans hadn’t bought all those Jap bikes back in the Seventies, the Japanese would have never had the capital to expand their auto industry (which was virtually nonexistent then), and if Americans hadn’t sent all those billions and billions of dollars to Japan buying those cars, we’d still be the world leader in every single industry (except perhaps Swiss chocolate and French cheese).

    Yes, unions are corrupt, but so is everything else in this country, from all the presidents in recent history right down to the last lying, money-grubbing corporate buttwipe. But if you think the Japanese have your best interests at heart, you’re living in a dream. Don’t look now, Elsie, but you’re just a cash cow in Japan’s herd. Say moooo-lah.

    Remember, these are the people who had more volunteer Kamakaze pilots than they could find planes for. That’s how much they love you back.

  38. 38 Moto Aug 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Kamakaze pilots? LOL Get a grip Todd8080. That comment is as relevant as bringing up America’s past with black slaves or slaughtering the native Americans. As far as Harley’s being all-American…it’s the biggest joke of all time. I know for a fact that they’ve dropped American steel tube suppliers for China/India suppliers for pennies. Yes, pennies! They want to hide behind the American flag but they’re too, part of the selling out to China fto save a few cents.

    Harley’s forks, shocks and carbs have been made in Japan for decades by Showa (Honda also used them exclusively for decades) and Mikuni carbs. I’m not sure about the fuel injection systems. Yes, pistons for the Evo engines are Jahn from Germany. Tires? They use Dunlops and while a British company, most Dunlops are made in the US. However, I did just buy a Dunlop tire this winter that was made in Japan. For years Jap bikes have had OEM Japanese Dunlops on them.

    As far as ALL American, that isn’t going to happen whether you’re talking bikes, cars or whatever. Stroll through a new car lot and check out the “domestic-foreign” parts percentages shown on the stickers. A bunch of them are assembled in Mexico, others have engines and transmissions assembled in Mexico, there’s a Saturn model that’s nothing more than a rebadged car built in Hungary, Poland or some God forsaken place over there. Check out the Geos, some are Suzukis entirely, some have Toyota engines and so on.

    Unfortunately, the US made Honda bikes are or will be a thing of the past shortly. All 200 plus motorcycle employees are being transfered to the auto division and bike production shifted back to Japan. That was on the national news a while back

    As far as Chinese made stuff goes, the big four Jap companies have stuff made in China as well. Some of Yamaha’s transmissions are Chinese made (I forget which models, but are mid-sized ones) as well as all other sorts of goodies. As far as Chinese steel goes, some of that stuff could be made from scrap we’re sending them. Scrap iron is selling at an all time high and people around here are even digging junk out of ditches to sell.

    Harley-Davidson uses Japanese parts. The suspension and some electronics have been Japanese since the early 70’s. Does that mean they “pimp” for the Japanese? LOL

    Screw the idiots who make garbage products & feel they are “entitled” to have the American public support them & buy their products. Screw the idiot Unions that jack up their unrealistic wages & expect America to buy them because they are “American”.

    Rationalize this…if a Harley-Davidson is made in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with many, many foreign parts…and can still be referred to as “Made in America” then I’m thinking a Honda Gold Wing were assembled in Marysville, Ohio from many, many foreign parts can also be called “American made”…right?

  39. 39 Todd8080 Aug 29th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Wow, talk about going off on a rant. I’d say it’s you that’s gripless, Moto (if that’s indeed your real name).

    First of all, America’s past is very relevant today and always will be. It’s called history. The past is what creates the future. Pearl Harbor may mean nothing to you, but it does to many others. And ask any black person about slavery. Better yet, tell a large group of black people that slavery is irrelevant today.

    Secondly, I neither said nor implied that Harleys are made entirely of American parts. I never even mentioned anything approaching that subject; you started that all on your own.

    Here’s why you should buy American (and I can’t believe I should even have to say those words). When you buy a Harley, virtually all of the profits from that sale stay in the U.S. When you buy a Honda, most of the profits go straight to Japan.

    Now I’m sure you’ll try to cloud the issue by saying that the Honda pimp …er, dealer, gets a share of that profit, but the lion’s share goes to the manufacturer and always will (otherwise no one would want to manufacture anything, they’d all be salesmen).

    And you can claim that Honda is just as American as Harley simply because they built plants on American soil, but location isn’t what defines the nationality of a company. Go to Google Image and type in “Honda board of directors” and see if you spot Abe Lincoln in the crowd.

    Yes, it sucks that Harley is forced to use some Japanese parts, but it’s YOU and all the other Jap worshippers who made it so, not me and not the MoCo. Before YOU turned your back on American industry and started financing the Japanese in the Seventies, Harley was 100% made in the USA.

    Thanks to YOU nearly driving Harley bankrupt while making Honda (who owns Showa) into an unstoppable giant by feeding it American dollars, Harley was forced to go the cheapest route on all of its parts just to stay afloat, which meant buying from Japanese vendors.

    In the Seventies Japanese labor was pennies on the dollar. No American company could compete with that, but if YOU hadn’t financed them in the first place they wouldn’t have had all those billions and billions of American dollars with which to build their empire. And the bigger YOU made them, the cheaper they could produce parts. We could have stuck it out and American industry would have recovered, but noooo, YOU just had to have those cheap oriental trinkets.

    I’d bet anything you have at least one Japanese car in your driveway right now. Not me. Never did and never will. I’d be ashamed to drive or ride a Japanese vehicle.

  40. 40 GSXR Aug 29th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    Jap Bikes Rule! Harleys are slow & they suck!

  41. 41 Todd8080 Aug 30th, 2009 at 5:14 am

    Spoken like a PlayStation champion.

    Jap bikes are to Harleys what Bic lighters are to Zippo lighters. One is cheap, brightly colored plastic designed to last a very short while and then be replaced, while the other is solid steel and designed to last a lifetime.

    When your plastic stunt toy starts to approach the quarter-million mile mark as my Harley is, I’ll race you for pink slips. Oh, wait, your bike will be in a junkyard many years before that could happen. If you ever see a Harley in a junkyard, buy it, because it’s there by mistake.

    Little boys buy motorcycles for doing childish tricks, men buy motorcycles to RIDE.

  42. 42 Dick Gazinia Aug 30th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    And now, a word about import duties on motorcycle parts…

    When Harley employees wrestled ownership of the shield and bar from AMF during the Reagan administration, one of their first moves was to lobby Congress to abolish import duties for motorcycle parts and accessories manufactured abroad. Why? Because if The Motor Company had to pay duty on every Taiwanese wiring harness, Showa fork, Sunstar brake rotor and chrome geegaw on their “American made” motorcycles, the Japanese Big Three would have Pearl Harbored Willie G’s ass before he could say, “pass the chaps.”

    With no US import duties imposed on motorcycle parts manufactured abroad, everyone can and does fly to China and Taiwan for manufacturing.

    If any rust belt trailerpark Republicans out there have a problem with this, blame H-D and Reaganomics.

  43. 43 Lou Sep 20th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    I found this post as I was about to make a post about “Made in America” vs Made in the USA”.
    Turns out there is a difference, or at least might be a difference.

    In our small business, we strive to by USA all the way. We make signs and plaques in Wisconsin and have been selling world-wide lately. Not big numbers by any stretch, but helping the balance of trade and keeping a few good US citizens employed.

    HD marketing is doing a good job of exporting Americana to other countries. It is their job to expand. It even isn’t too bad if they have to build a plant in some third world toilet to make them for the local market. But the lure of cheap labor (laborers that will never be able to afford to purchase a HD) has and will again prove too tempting for the HD brass to pass-up.

    I have owned more than a few HDs in my life, and I will have to think again before buying another. I couldn’t in good conscience buy a bike made in some shit hole outpost while our brothers and sisters are laid-off here at home.

  44. 44 SkunkBoy Sep 21st, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Seriously, this has been the trend of manufacturing for the last thirty years. This is capitalism at it’s finest so don’t start whining when your team is losing. If you want healthy compatition then destroy all trademarks and pattens. That’s what Japan and China did so they could rip-off our original ideas and reproduce them cheaper and more cost effective.

    You can’t solely blame the unions either anymore than you can blame the CEO and Board of a company. How can you complain about people getting paid to much (20 bucks and hour?) and in the same mouth complain how others are paid too little taking our jobs. How about the CEO who is making quite litterally 100 times your salery because he went to an Ivy leauge school and rubbed heads with other green bread crackers who were groomed to run our cooperations and economy. It’s an fake concept called value. You aren’t worth the 35K a year they’ll pay you but that one guy sure earned that 20 million dollar bonus.

    We have more rigerous standards of quality and saftey here because of our laws which makes american products somewhat better, but it’s all made of the same materials. Also just because someone doesn’t live here or speak english doesn’t mean they can’t hang a bumper or fender any better than we can.. Get real.

    It’s not an economic revolution it’s economic evolution. America is the great lumbering mamouth and the developing world is going to spear us down and clean our hide. When Americans can’t even afford to keep their house then who can buy a Harley anymore? What would you expect from a country that allows coperations to change their adresses to tax havens so they can operate state side with minimal taxes? Coorperations have already grown into entities that transend boarders and landmarks, Eventually they’ll even be outsourced completely off our shores and set up their HQ’s and boardrooms in other parts. It won’t be goverment or guns that blur our boarders, it will be money.

    Here’s the only thing you can do. Teach your children about the importiance of education so they won’t end up on a line like the rest of us. Maybe they can figure a way to stay on top before the ship goes down.

  45. 45 scott Sep 28th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    So far I’v had the chrome fall off my tank badge and now my engine cover. I’m about done with all American motorcycle lie. Harley Is doing it again as they did with AMF proffits mean more than costomer satisfaction. They a selling out to keep stock holders happy!

  46. 46 Teddyinthailand Oct 20th, 2009 at 6:11 am

    You may say you do not mind where Harley makes there bikes – well you will if they end up making them here in Thailand – where copy parts are available for the tenth of the price of original parts they are also crap complete garbage – why Harley chose here in Thailand I do not know – surely they realise that no motorbikes of any size are legally allowed on the motorway here and if you get caught they will confiscate the bike and that’s the law, the catch 22 is foreigners are not allowed to sue the police for wrongful arrest, repossession, well just about anything. You are going to need at least US$ 40,000 to get in the door of the place and the minute the American lads over here from Harley depart back to the USA this will happen, you bring the Bike in for a service, parts are stripped off and replaced by copy parts, the parts they remove go back on the shelf to be sold as original spares and they pocket the money they do it with everything here. I sold my FAT BOY here because of all the hassle. There is not a foreigner in his right mind would buy any Harley here that says made in Thailand as the chances of it having both wheels are 50-50 – America what are you doing to the most famous and reliable motorbike brand in the world. Changing times.

  47. 47 Brian H Nov 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    I find the argument of union workers being overpaid one that lacks substance. Do we all really believe union workers don’t deserve to live a decent life, and don’t deserve to live in a modest home? Do we think that only someone who sits behind a desk deserves this type of life? Many of the comments I read here lead me to believe that. Check out Harley Davidson’s financial statements before you jump to conclusions about Harley ripping off their customers, they make no more of a Net margin than any other business, including the ones all of you work for. I agree that perhaps there is room for improvement and efficiency at the Harley manufacturing facilities, but it certainly cannot come at the cost of displacing American manufactured products for imported ones. The implications of what we are doing by moving manufacturing to China is have a devastating ecological and economic impact that we may never recover from. It’s our choice as consumers to buy products that have the majority of their value added here in the US, and let the businesses know that is what we want. Tell Sears, Ariens, Irwin Tools, Whirlpool, GE, and many other companies, that is what you want. Stop the unnecessary shift overseas, and support American workers, ourselves, ans stop being greedy for our own irrational self interest. Buy New Balance sneakers, at least the ones assembled in the USA.

  48. 48 Steve Jan 3rd, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    check out Victory. Except for the brakes and one other item, which I dont recall at the moment, Made in the USA. The hd fanatics wont ever admit it though.

  49. 49 Joe Jan 31st, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Soon another American company will be forced abroad by labor unions,as they have done with Detroit. Sad to think an American Icon killed by overpaid union labor.

  50. 50 Biker Bob Apr 7th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Hate to break it to you folks, but Harley is NOT as USA made as they would have you believe.

    Parts from all over the world are in them, and it is debated that Honda may be more American made than Harley. For the most part, all motorcycles are assembled in the USA, but not necessarily made in the USA. Honda has a “manufacturing” plant in Ohio, not an assembly plant like others would say. Harley is an assembly plant, not necessarily a manufacturer of bikes.

    I have been shopping for a newer bike for a year now. This information is from countless hours of research, trying to find the perfect last bike for me.

    I found it. A motorcycle kit that will be assembled by me, made in the midwest US, yes some overseas parts like Harley, but exactly what I was looking for and more.

    AND I don’t have to pay an extra 5 or 6 grand to upgrade to a motor that I want. I also won;t be paying for the HD logo on my bike, which will save me a lot of money now and in the future. And still give me the riding experience I have wanted for a lifetime. Value is perceived and realized only at the end of the day. Trade value down the road means nothing to me, I want present day value.

  51. 51 Boyke Soerianata Aug 16th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Such a Nightmare for American Automotive of Motorcycles

  52. 52 David Barry Sep 9th, 2010 at 1:00 am

    Wow – Very interesting reading all the comments. At the end of the day, how I see is if you buy a Harley, you are buying a product which is at least half manufactured in a third world country, yet paying a first world price. What an absolute rip off for the so called “American Dream” ! Harley riders are so gullible.
    All Japanese performance bikes are made in Japan, and are now much better quality than Harleys. They are faster, more reliable,handle better, stop better and horror of horrors cost less.
    Buy a Ducati. At least you are getting a quality / premium product for your significant investment. My bike proudly has a “Made in Italy” logo on the tank and I ride it with pride. No crap made in china, Indonesia, mexico etc etc etc.
    Ride on….

  53. 53 Anthony Sep 9th, 2010 at 3:24 am

    Well said that man.
    I agree with David’s comments completely. I have had three Harley Davidson motorcycles, and thought they were great until I rode a BMW K1000RS which I hired to tour Europe on nine years ago. Eleven countries in six weeks and over three thousand miles convinced me how underpowered, overweight, and downright uncomfortable my Harley was. Especially on European roads which are narrower, and they actually have bends in them. I now ride a BMW ( Surprise surprise ) and love every mile I’m in the saddle. It handles beautifully, and has almost twice the power of my old Harley. The finish, suspension, and brakes are also far superior. At a similar price to a Harley, I’m getting European engineering ( Not third world ) and finish which Harley Davidson or as I call them – “Hardly Movingson” just cannot deliver.
    No more false ticky tacky bling, all show and no go for me. I’m now riding a real motorcycle. To all you Harley riders out there – My advice to you is to at least ride a foreign bike and see what you have been missing.

  54. 54 Harlonda Nov 6th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Have not read all the blogs; I want to know why I keep hearing about tax breaks for moving companies overseas. As a taxpayer I find it treasonous for our reprsentatives to allow this but with lobbyist running the show I feel powerless and am powerless as it seems you can change the players but not the game. (Congress)
    I have owned a real Harley Davidson (1969 XLH) as well as an 85 Goldwing , 96 Royal Star; all fine rides; mostly rent Harleys now and find them a blast, especially since I can ride and return and rent another day.
    As far as union / management both have their place; a fair wage for the worker who produces as well as those who keep things moving, however I agree that a CEO making 400 times the average worker or receiving huge bonuses after driving a company into the ground needs to be looked at.
    IMHO. (Excuse the grammatics)

  55. 55 onespeed Nov 14th, 2010 at 8:05 am

    it has been this way for years and years,, all you had to do is look at the parts hangin on the wall all over the HD shop turn the box around and it says made in china,tawain,or whereever but noe in the UNITED STATES.

  56. 56 jim noll Dec 15th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    hareley davidson has been an icon of mine since the 60s and im real disapoint to see you have to biuld bikes overseas when i cane biuld one in my garage. harley davidson needs totrim the fat in the office get all those wana bees out of there and lets biuld bikes the money will come .the best way to do biss is cut the middle man the shop makes the money i dont car what they SAY the suits can go .any ways who needs suits when you got an american icon bike willie g and family needs to get into the shop and run it fuck the motherfucken suits please lets keep it an american icon

    30yrs as a G.M. mechanic
    also biuld bikes in my shop NO SUITS

  57. 57 jim noll Dec 15th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    get rid of the suits in the office lets biuld bikes . dont need the suits. yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    that will save millions

  58. 58 jim noll Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    willie g need to get rid of the geedy suits

  59. 59 Chris Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Blame the unions? Sorry wrong answer, If you want to go back to serfdom than go ahead blame the unions, right to work states have more people in poverty, more people with no med ins, higher unemployment, and some of the lowest wages in the U.S.. Having spent 37 years in the construction industry,I have worked in both union states and right to work states, and the difference is pathetic, In 2002 I hired a 50 some year old male in Tennesee just to clean up after my crews, at 10 dollars an hour, This man had worked construction all his life, and told me that was the Most money he had ever been paid,, So Tell me how did a Union company from out of state get the job?
    It’s because our bid was cheaper, our workers better skilled, We did the job under budget and finished our part 2 months early, Had it not been for a non union contractor doing the foundation, we could have finished 4 months early, But we spent days and weeks waiting for them, They produced half of what my men could with 2 times the people, Do I blame the workers? Nah If I paid my men 6-8 dollars an hour with NO benefits They would be slow too, and the amazing part is this contractors bid was no lower than ours, If you want to go back to the 20’s with 2/3rds of the country in poverty and the other 1/3 having 80% of the money than go ahead blame the unions,
    Just my 2 cents worth, and I ride a Victory!

  60. 60 Bigfoot390 Jan 4th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    The American way is Competition. If it makes Harley better then that’s great . If they go under its because they don’t keep up with the competition, kind of like what they did when they stopped winning race’s. Then they deserve to go the way of all things.
    Give me a good product at a fair price above a fair product at a good price any day.. This is the reason that Harley is having such a hard time getting more market share.
    Its time to stop crying foul this and not fair that and man up to the fact that its not a fair world , not an easy world and only the strong will survive.
    Move the factory to bumf@#k Alabama. Rename the town Milwaukee if you have to as I am sure they would go for it and stop whining about how metric bikes and foreign products are ruining this country.
    nuff said

  61. 61 Jack1962 Mar 5th, 2011 at 4:41 am

    you people crack me up , Japan planted a seed in the heads of the weak minded years ago , saying american’s are fat, lazy and stupid , and it spead like a virus thru the population. They pushed sub-standard products , saying how much better they are than american products and guess what all of you believed them. Now guess what , we are fat , lazy and stupid . We are fat because we sit on our behinds to much , we are lazy because we can be , we are stupid because , we have done all this to ourselfs. The United States of America is the greatest country that has ever been , if all of you want it to be great again stop buying yamaha , toyota, honda , and start buy Harley Davidson , Chevy and Ford

  62. 62 Bluejacket Apr 8th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    I agree with Jim C and Jack1962.

    New CEO = I don’t care as long as I get my big bonus at the end of the year. Cheaper Labor = Bigger Margins = Bigger Bonus.

    This only changes if JoeUSA stops buying stuff made from overseas. Our plants and factories are not closing because of taxes or environmental issues, its labor, labor, labor and benies that are motivating CEOs. Small businessman and their companies have been impacted as well as workers. The stuff coming from overseas is not to our standards.

    That from an Financial Analyst that works on Corp Cost Management and sees Executive Comp

    Of course some of you don’t give a rats posterior about this kind of stuff. But you will eventually as it will come around eventually to impacting you, especially when it becomes more and more difficult to buy the things you have come to expect to own.

  63. 63 luke Apr 14th, 2011 at 4:14 am

    Well I live in Thailand and if you say there is a HD plant here I would like to know where it is because to buy a bike here or get parts it costs more than twice the price than in the USA.
    Please give me the address …..)

  64. 64 Daniel Alexander Jones Apr 20th, 2011 at 5:22 am

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but, I don’t want anything on my bike that isn’t AMERICAN! Did everyone forget what they are riding??? A Harley Davidson made in another country isn’t a Harley Davidson…

  65. 65 biker Jun 4th, 2011 at 4:38 am


  66. 66 biker Jun 4th, 2011 at 4:51 am


  67. 67 gene okelley Jun 14th, 2011 at 9:08 am

    I did not know that Harley had plants overseas already. As long has they do not bring that bike over here to sell i will continue to buy harleys. We need to feed our market with jobs not some other country! They better stay union made also or it’s on to a Victory!!!

  68. 68 WinnerWinner Jan 3rd, 2012 at 8:26 am

    Better buy JOHN DEERE. MOST J-D parts are made right here in the good ‘ole U.S.A. Hell we are even building factories in many third world nations, due to THEIR import regulations!

    P.S. MOST American Flags are also constructed in CHINA. We have sold out. But cHaNGe is a coming….

  69. 69 Nervous Wreck Jan 31st, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “Please avoid offensive, vulgar. or hateful language.” Kind of hard not too, after reading this article!!!

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