Aluminum Finned Oil tank For sale. The Patent.

oilbag1
“Cyril. You don’t know me, I talked to you several times at shows but never really introduced my self. I am the guy who was building the finned aluminum oil bags for Softail bikes. I would like to sell the patents and patterns and was hoping you could direct me in the right direction to get exposure on this product.

Attached is a pic of it. Thanks” Greg Shickle gregs@tech-alloy.com

Zipper's

22 Responses to “Aluminum Finned Oil tank For sale. The Patent.”


  1. 1 Bigalyts Nov 19th, 2009 at 9:31 am

    I don’t understand this Patent Stuff , the validity of what is truely a Part or an Idea that NOBODY can CHANGE OR MODIFY or …………..@#$%^&*( I really don’t understand ! Maybe you or your Bloggers out there can explain what you can do and what you can’t do… This OIL TANK is a perfect example to hear the Patent rights of the Tank…. I just see some Builder out there, If they like the Idea or the Design of THIS PARTICULAR OIL TANK and changing let’s say THE SHAPE of the Fins, or making them a PAN DESIGN or ????? Tell Why A PATENT WOULD PROTECT THIS GUY?

  2. 2 bd Nov 19th, 2009 at 9:36 am

    It makes the Lawyer’s money silly!!! Whoever has the deepest pockets wins…

  3. 3 toph Nov 19th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    the harley rocker has an oil bag reminiscent of this one. the fins aren’t the same but similar idea and look.

    from my talks with industry innovators, patents mean nothing; it costs more to defend the patent then most of the profits.

  4. 4 just my opinion Nov 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    i believe I can answer most of those patent questions. I own several patents and have had the mis fortune of having to litigate/protect them in court. But I have won each and every case and their have been many.

    First there are two types of patents there are design patents and also utility patents.
    The design patent covers just what it says the design. A lot of people think that you can change a design by a small amount and get around that type of patent but that it not necessarily the case. In fact if you did change a design and come out with a part that is slightly differant. you could still be held liable for royalties by the federal courts. If you got your idea from a patented item you could have to pay royalties for that product. That is not always the case but it could be in some cases.

    The utility patent would cover the function of an item. In the case of a oil tank that has cooling fins it could be patented for the ulility of the added cooling effect that may be created by adding the cooling fins. It could also be patented for design. If nobody had ever thought to add cooling fins to an oil tank before, than both the design and the function or utility could be covered by patents.

    As for being able to change the design, let me give an example of what people think they can do but in fact will cause them nothing but headaches.

    Lets say some one has a oil tank that is of a rounded shape and it has cooling fins like this one does.
    somebody else comes along and thinks ” hey I will just change the shape of the tank lets say an octagon shape and therefore I will be able to make lots of money off this guys hard work and get rich”

    He gets served with a lawsuit. Why?

    Because even if he has changed the shape of the tank it would still have the cooling fins that create cooling so the utility patent covers that shape as well and also the design patent may have the other shape or design covered in it.

    Remember that just because a company or person that owns patents does not sell a tank in a differant shape that does not mean that there patent does not cover that other shape. A patent owner can cover many shapes and never sell but one of those but he still retains the rights for all shapes he has covered.

    One other thing that people should know is that it is possible to patent an item but still not be able to sell that item. Example if you did file for a design patent for a oil tank that has fins lets say this guy did not cover fins going up and down on his design patent, you may be able to get a design patent for that BUT he could still sue you for patent infringment for the cooling effect that those fins create and you could be held liable for damages such as a reasonable royalty, attorney fees, court cost plus if you are found to have done that infringing intentionally you could be held liable for treble damages. Treble means three times the amount. You may also be held liable for damaging the patent holders good business name if you compared your part to theirs in ads.

    Patent lawsuits are very expensive to fight ” for both parties “but if the patent holder wins you could have comitted financial suicide. Yes you could file bankruptcy but with the new laws even then you will likely loss every thing you own except your car or truck, motorcycle are considered recreational items and courts will sell them to pay your debt. Hope this has answered some of the questions you have. There is much more to all this patent stuff than I could possible put in here but this should give a person a good idea of how the patents work. If you want more info you could go to http://www.uspto.gov That is the official site for the United States Patent and Trademark offices.

    I am curious what is the patent number and does this patent owner have any liabilities such as lawsuits currently going on and does he have any income currently from this product?

  5. 5 Jeff Nicklus Nov 19th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    JMO,

    Very well said and presented.

    Over & Out,

    Jeff

  6. 6 Luckiest of All Devils Nov 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    I like the conversation around the patent issue, this is a great topic.
    As for this oil tank…. looks like every other horseshoe oil tank, not impressed. It has fins…. yay! Actually, looks like this guy stole the idea from Cole Foster, Todd Silicato, Harley’s “Rocker” and all fo the other countless and talented folks who have finned their oilbags. Look formy concept coming soon… it’s called the TYR…. it’s alot like a tire, but I grooved it differently and am making it available in scented models…. so your burnouts smell like cherry pie or lasagne.

  7. 7 J Nov 19th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Dang- hope this doesn’t impinge upon my patent for the finned cylinder……..

  8. 8 David Nov 19th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    Just to let you guys know I am getting silently rich off my round wheel and rubber tire patent!!!

  9. 9 just my opinion Nov 19th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    There are many people that don’t believe in patents. But here is one more fact for you guys.
    The founding fathers of this country thought that patents were so needed and valued that they mentioned them in our constitution.

    Most of us are quick to say we have rights provided us under that contitution, but have no idea what those rights really are. It would due some of you good to actually read it sometime.

    Remember this, if it was not for patents, most guys that have a great idea would not share their inventions with the rest of the world. Patents make it possible for any American to come up with a great idea and change their lives as well as their families lives. If not for patents large companies would just take everything from the average folks and give back nothing. It is the protection of a patent that can allow small shops or individuals to build large companies.
    AKA ” living The American Dream” it can happen to any one of you but please don’t make the mistake of infringing on someone elses rights trying to reach that dream. A good patent attorney can research an idea or product and tell you if it is patentable or if it has been done before. I am living that American dream and I can tell you that before I came up with my idea I would have never thought it could happen to someone like me. Never give up on your dreams this is America and dreams do come true here.

    I don’t know anything about this oil tank or the patents he is trying to sell but if he will give us the patent number then we may all learn something about his patent and what it does or does not cover.

  10. 10 m switzer Nov 19th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    I don’t know who started it but Salinas Bros had the same style oil tank on their bikes years before Harley did on their site its on “beautiful loser” and on “special K”. I contacted them to buy one but the price was too high for my cheap taste around $800 . Luckiest of all Devils- there is a tire out that gives you different colored smoke when doing a burnout so smell might e a good idea

  11. 11 maroco Nov 20th, 2009 at 7:27 am

    Hello, (just my opinion), can you explain, how it works the licences, this explain the fact so many people built similar things whit no problems,but they have to pay for this licences.
    Inventors can sell or deal a patent,during the prosses, or only after the patent concesion?
    Thank´s for answer. (your patents are to motorcycles?)
    Maroco

  12. 12 T Nov 20th, 2009 at 8:11 am

    I did a search on the patent website for Greg Shickle as inventor and it is a design patent #D401,188.

  13. 13 just my opinion Nov 20th, 2009 at 10:31 am

    maroco ; You are correct patents can be licenced. The bearer/owner of the patent has the right to use the patent rights them selves or they can lease/licence those rights to others or both use them and licence to others. This is why you see some parts made by more than just the original patent holder. Sometimes there are many companies paying a licence fee to make a product. But we should all be careful not to by knockoff/unlicenced parts because some of those parts are not licenced and are what is called a knockoff. I personally would never buy a knockoff mainly because I understand what it takes to get a patent and I also understand that those people selling knockoff parts are the first to leave our industry when caught or times turn such as they have recently. People that sell knockoff part are hurting more than just the patent owner. Think of it this way if a inventor has his ideas stolen/ infringed he is likely to never share any more of his ideas, why would he? If he spends the time and expence to develope a part or music or what ever his intellectual property is then some theif comes along and steals it. That inventor is less likely to share any more ideas. Theft is theft it does not matter if it is a candy bar or someone’s intellectual property. And as I said before anyone of you could have the next great idea, even the guy’s who knockoff others. I am sure thou that if the guys that knockoff others have a great idea and get a patent they would be the first to cry foul if someone else knocks off their ideas.

  14. 14 maroco Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:12 am

    I again thank´s for answer, i realy apreciate.I and one partner try a patent but like you say it´s a hard task. We like find a buyer, can you help whit advises, the patent is (steering suspension and fixation system for motorcycle wheels).
    maroco

  15. 15 maroco Nov 20th, 2009 at 11:24 am

    I again you can see at (nunoeruivo.home.sapo.pt), great feauter of a great reporter Horst Roesler.

  16. 16 just my opinion Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    maroco; I have never sold any of my patents. But I would start buy looking on the internet for a business/patent broker. I would however be careful not to pay any fees up front. I have heard of companies paying large fees up front to sell such items and getting no sale. If it were me I would be willing to enter into an agreement that would state if and when said company could find a buyer then and only then would they be paid and that if they could not find a buyer then I would owe nothing. The agreement should be simular to a real estate agreement, you give them exclusive right to sell but only pay at the time of sale. You may have more luck if you shop it around in the industry your self. Someone that makes parts in the same industry may be more interested in a licencing deal and that could pay much more in the long run. I do know that if you are not making the parts as of yet the price of the patent would only be somewhere around 3-5 times what the cost of getting the patent was. You could possibly make more than that the first couple of years. And if all else fails you may want to market your own products. That is what I do and it has worked out very well. It has not been easy but well worth the effort. Hope this has been of some help to you.
    Good luck I wish you well.

  17. 17 just my opinion Nov 20th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

    Jeff I am sure with all the stuff you have designed and made over the years you must have a patent or two. Don’t you? If so give us your input. I bet you have some wisedom to ad to this topic. And even if you don’t have patents maybe you could share with us why you should have patented some of your ideas, because I know that you, like many others in this industry have been copied more times than you probably care to remember.

  18. 18 Jeff Nicklus Nov 20th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    JMO,

    Like you, we (I) have had to defend out patents, as well as our Trademarks, on more than one occasion and we have likewise prevailed in each case. Currently I have almost $3.5 million dollars in uncollected judgments against those offenders who we have litigated against. In most cases I have little, if any, hope of collecting those damages, however, in every case I have forced the offending companies out of business thereby stopping the manufacture and/or distribution of our products and/or names. Yes, Patents and Trademarks are necessary to protect yourself however; they are also extremely expensive to defend. I therefore have found that, in many cases, once I have been made aware of someone violating our intellectual property I will contact the offender directly myself and offer the offender three choices …. 1) Let’s get ready to rumble in Federal Court …. or 2: I offer to make them a licensee of our products and/or Trade name or …… 3: We will build OUR products for the offender under a private label agreement. Two of these three options will keep us out of court and help mitigate any legal expenses. We currently build over 30 items for other companies in the industry under the “Private Label” banner.

    Over & Out,

    Jeff

  19. 19 maroco Nov 20th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I again we already participate at great bike shows: MC Faro AMD,Paris Kustom Show,Bike ExpoVerona,Gòis MC, hope we can participate in others to, but…….
    We also have the luck for the first contact with Horst Roesler, we realy apreciate the Features in the Bike Magazines.
    We also try contact whit Motorcycle Companys but until now, no responce.
    I complet agree whit you, but for us it´s hard to “risk” money in a bussines,we live in small citys,and
    the patent process it´s not complete already.
    We receive some good contacts but, interesting in patents nothing.
    Because of this we like sell or deal the patent, as much this cost for us.
    Thank´s very much for yuor atencion and the opportunity in this great Blog.
    maroco.

  20. 20 just my opinion Nov 20th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Jeff; I totally agree that it is always better not to have to litigate but, I am sure you have had some clowns just as we have that think they will be the one that can beat the system and break your patents. I have also given people the option to make things right before going to the expence of fighting a court battle. But if THEY choose to fight it out in court then I will do everything in my power to see that they pay every dime they can. I will usually try to talk to them and tell them up front that if we go to court I will do all I can to collect any damage awarded even if it means taking all they have or forcing them into bankruptcy. Something I have found in many cases is that if these people would spend as much effort doing their own thing as they do trying to steal from me, they could have been successful. I am not sure if it is stupidity or arogance but some people just seem to feel they are intitled to take anything they wish from anyone they want. Those are the ones I love to see whining in backruptcy hearing as they find out they will lose everything they have except their broke down truck.

  21. 21 Bigalyts Nov 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Boy oh Boy did I get a belated education ! I am just seeing the response to my Question. I do see the expense of a US Patent. I represent a Product that is to good to be true. It has nothing to do with the MC Biz ! Itt removes Mold and Mildew and It NEVER GROWS BACK ! This sounds like BS, and a Scam and a whole bunch of Smoke and Mirrors. The reason that I believe in the Product is that the Inventor has the Product Patented. I probably would not even put my Career and reputaion on the line, however this Inventor also Owns “79” SEVENTY NINE more Patents for other Products as well. He owned a Patent on a Oil Type Polymer that would Coat the internal Parts of a Motor keeping the wear down to a minimum. This Oil also never requires Changed either! In Fact it is…………………………….I NEVER HEARD OF IT EITHER !! Reason that We never saw this product is our Dear Friends at MOBIL OIL CO. has purchased the Patent and we won’t see it , on the Market either. Yes Patents are a Wonderful thing, they can work to One Corporations Advantage and he Nobody else will find out the good news.

  22. 22 just my opinion Nov 23rd, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    Bigalyts
    He owned a Patent on a Oil Type Polymer that would Coat the internal Parts of a Motor keeping the wear down to a minimum. This Oil also never requires Changed either! In Fact it is…………………………….I NEVER HEARD OF IT EITHER !! Reason that We never saw this product is our Dear Friends at MOBIL OIL CO. has purchased the Patent and we won’t see it , on the Market either.

    Bigalyts; If you know this guys name that patent could easily be found on the patent and trademark web site. The patent would have to discribe in detail how to make the oil. And here is the best news patents only last twenty years, after that anyone can make the product or part.
    Did you know that the formula for coca cola was never patented? The reason was so that they would never have to disclose the formula. KFC also went that route. If you don’t patent your idea you don’t have to give the knowlage of how it is made. But if you do have a patent then in twenty years anyone can make that product. And to get the patent you must disclose how it is made. I have heard stories of carburators that get a hundred miles per gallon and patent was applied for but the rights were sold to oil companies and they choose to pull the product from the patent process so as to not have the world know of these products.

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