Police Biker Clubs. Are They Hurting The Credibility Of Law Enforcement?

LEO1Zusha Elinson, journalist at the Wall Street Journal, wrote the following article regarding he proliferation of Police Biker Clubs and the incidents in which they have been involved possibly hurting all the law enforcement credibility.

Prosecutors are considering criminal charges against four members of the Iron Brotherhood motorcycle club for their roles in a Christmas time bar brawl in Prescott, Ariz., that sent one man to the hospital. Their nicknames are Tarzan, Mongo, Guido and Top Gun. They rode Harley Davidson motorcycles, wore vests decorated with skulls and some allegedly carried knives and brass knuckles. Their day jobs were police chief, county sheriff’s sergeant, police officer and paramedic.

An increasing number of police officers are forming motorcycle clubs, and hundreds now exist nationwide, according to experts on motorcycle gangs. Gang investigators fear that such clubs, some of which have the trappings of outlaw biker groups, can hurt the credibility of law enforcement and undermine criminal cases brought against traditional gangs.

“In the last 15 years I would say that we’ve probably seen a tenfold increase in these clubs,” said Terry Katz, vice president of the International Outlaw Motorcycle Gang Investigators Association, who works for the Maryland State Police. “The first ones were pretty straightforward. They were family-oriented clubs. What we see now as a trend is biker by night and cop by day.”

LEO2The growth of such groups worries some law-enforcement officials because of the rowdy and violent behavior that sometimes goes on. In South Dakota, for instance, prosecutors charged a Seattle police detective who was a member of a group called the Iron Pigs with shooting and injuring a Hells Angels biker in a 2008 brawl between the clubs. The charges were later dropped. This year, the police chief in Melrose Park, Ill., a Chicago suburb, disbanded a police motorcycle club called the Reapers whose members had allegedly been in a bar fight.

“If this is not addressed, you’re going to continue to have these issues like you have in Arizona,” said David “Vito” Bertocchini, a retired detective who investigated motorcycle gangs in California. “If these guys were dressing as street-gang members and they had red rags hanging out their pockets, would this be tolerated? Absolutely not.” In the courts, defense attorneys seek to torpedo charges against alleged gang members by arguing they are no different than police motorcycle clubs. Jorge Gil-Blanco, a retired San Jose police officer and expert witness, said the issue “muddies the water for juries.” He adds, “I shouldn’t have to sit there and justify this type of behavior.”

Members of police clubs say the concern is overblown. The Blue Knights, a law-enforcement club with more than 20,000 members around the world, was formed to raise money for charities and ride bikes with fellow officers and families, said D.J. Alvarez, international vice president. “We try to maintain a positive appearance,” he said. “We promote motorcycle safety, we involve families and we’re not discriminative,” he added. The national board of directors for the Iron Brotherhood didn’t respond to requests for comment, but on its website appeared to distance itself from the Arizona bar fight, denouncing “any behavior by its members that would reflect negatively on our club or our profession as law-enforcement officers.” The board said what was known as the Whiskey Row Chapter in Prescott no longer exists.

LEO3The fight broke out Dec. 22 last year at Moctezuma’s Bar in Prescott, where members of the Iron Brotherhood had gathered for their Christmas party. A patron approached Bill “Tarzan” Fessler, president of the Iron Brotherhood chapter and the police chief of neighboring Prescott Valley, and either grabbed his vest or asked about the club’s patch, according to witness accounts in a report released by the Arizona Department of Public Safety. A melee ensued and a security guard observed an Iron Brotherhood member “pounding” someone’s face, the report said. Investigators concluded that the man, who was treated for a possible broken nose, and another patron were hit. State investigators recommended assault charges against two Iron Brotherhood members, obstruction-of-justice charges against Mr. Fessler and another member of the club, and disorderly conduct charges against the patron. A spokesman for the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office said prosecutors were reviewing the recommendations, but have yet to decide on filing criminal charges.

Yavapai County Sheriff’s personnel board recently recommended terminating three employees who were members of the club. “I know the badge has been tarnished, and we will work relentlessly to regain the community’s full trust and confidence,” said Yavapai County Sheriff Scott Mascher. The Hells Angels, which has been labeled a dangerous criminal organization by federal authorities, though its members dispute the characterization, also weighed in on the incident. The local chapter expressed its disapproval to a local news site and challenged the Iron Brotherhood to a boxing match. The Brotherhood didn’t take up the offer. “[The boxing challenge] was really kind of to stand up to these guys,” said Michael Koepke, vice president of the Yavapai County Hells Angels chapter, who last year had charges stemming from a 2010 shootout dismissed. “They give a bad name to motorcycle clubs.”

Zipper's

77 Responses to “Police Biker Clubs. Are They Hurting The Credibility Of Law Enforcement?”


  1. 1 Hank Dillon Jul 24th, 2013 at 8:34 am

    Bad boys are everywhere…

  2. 2 FXDX805 Jul 24th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Great, wannabe 1%er’s who can hide behind a badge.

  3. 3 Sharkey Jul 24th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    I have no problem with this; freedom of association, right? People always want to label and group others for some reason…makes things easier for them I guess…..

  4. 4 Terence Tory Jul 24th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    You can’t straddle both sides of the fence,you could lose bits in the middle.

  5. 5 foo-e Jul 24th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Where is the RICO act? 3 or more makes a gang

  6. 6 bob Jul 24th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    they hatted bikers at one time now its cool to be one I don’t support no one club but would never support any police mc

  7. 7 Seven Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    They say the psychological profile between a cop and a criminal are VERY similar. Only divided by a very thin line.

  8. 8 Mike Greenwald Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Immunity from prosecution. Laws that they are exempt from abiding. RICO doesn’t apply to government.

  9. 9 Awful Knawful Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    I gotta believe the good aspects of these clubs out weigh the bad elements by far. Fund raising for charities and bringing awareness for good causes are the norm around my neck of the woods. On a similar note though , I know a group of firemen who are fantastic at their job , but as a MC are the biggest bunch of non-riding posers you’ve ever seen in your life.

  10. 10 Smooth Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    The biggest “street gang” in the country is the police, now they are putting patches on their backs to give bikers a bad name.

  11. 11 BadMonkeyMW Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    I love the last line from the HA member, “They’re giving motorcycle clubs a bad name.” Haha! Way to stick it to the cops. And the fact that they backed down from a friendly boxing challenge shows what a bunch of cowards they are, hiding behind a badge.

  12. 12 mk Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    “What we see now as a trend is biker by night and cop by day.”

    This is the best line I have ever read.

  13. 13 Otis Ward Jul 24th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Of course they’re hurting their so called credibility! It’s ludicrous to think otherwise! If their club is not a motorcycle gang…then mine’s not either! But you can bet their gang won’t be visiting our gang!

  14. 14 LoneRider Jul 24th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Another motorcycle “gang” only these fools get to hide behind a badge and be the biggest bully on the block because of the badge. Toss them all in the same hood and see which gang come out alive.

  15. 15 McBolt Jul 24th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Lets see, what club was it that Easyriders asked to leave their event? And what club video taped themselves (and put it on youtube) of standing out front of the event chanting and scaring families going into and out of the Easyriders event? And what club did Easyriders get a permanent injunction against in attending ALL future Easyriders events?

  16. 16 Boomer Jul 24th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Awful Nawful: We see the same thing in the county I live in. They give real bikers a bad name… seriously. Posers all. Respect is earned. Not something someone gets by simply throwing a patch on their backs.

  17. 17 ROGUE Jul 24th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Maybe some of the Law Enforcement Motorcycle Clubs should Investigate the Outlaw Motorcycle Gang Investigators Association. and while they are at it the Motorcycle Task Force.
    There are good and bad in all walks of life and that does include Law Enforcement and Motorcycle Clubs.
    I happen to have friends in both and they are because we respect each other.
    I personally know some BAD COPS and feel they are still on the job because some Good Cops have not done anything to remove them.
    Help get rid of Bad Cops and Support Good Cops!

  18. 18 nicker Jul 24th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    People are people, cops or bikers….. whatever.

    Just remember, life aint a popularity contest.
    Your mamma should-a told ya, You’ll be know by the company you keep, so pick your friend wisely.
    Those with have half a brain you won’t let other determine who they are.
    If you don’t know yourself ….well then, you still have a lot of growing up to do.

    Pretending is for kids playing cops & robber…… or adults desperately trying to “be somebody.”
    Pretending to be something your not can be as dangerous as pretending to know how to ride a motorcycle.

    “…know they self first….”
    -nicker-

  19. 19 J.H. Jul 24th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    They don’t follow the unwritten rules of the Motorcycle World, they think they don’t have to ask the Predominate Club in the area if they can form a Motorcycle Club, they think they are above that…I got invited to a charity run and bike show at a local drinking establishment. I am an Independent Biker, there were lots of bikes, I was invited a non- 1% club member. The minute I got there I was confronted by a member of a club I had never heard of, and ask where they were from because they had a Texas bottom rocker, in Texas only the Bandidos can run a Texas bottom Rocker. I was informed that they were all cops and fxxk the Bandits, they didn’t have to follow any of their rules. Well I told him Fxxk you, and your lame ass club. I was ready for a fight, he pussied up and split for his “Bros” They never came- just stared.. They show no respect to any of us..

  20. 20 rob Jul 24th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    I too am an independent and a retired cop. i was asked to join a few clubs over the years and declined…………………..i don’t get it,and frankly i’m a bit amused and embarrassed for some of these guys……………..

  21. 21 ROGUE Jul 24th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    Does anyone know how the police in Sturgis are going to handle members of law enforcement that are not from their department carrying guns into bars during the rally this year?
    It is common knowledge members of law enforcement in clubs and not have been carrying guns in bars during the rally in the past.
    My understanding it is against the law.
    It appears there is selective law enforcement.
    The laws should apply to all equally, Just saying!!!

  22. 22 Blackmax Jul 24th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Wow !!!!
    A whole lot of comments on what I seeing as a very sore subject …
    I ride with FRIENDS !!!!
    Some of them wear patches, Most of them Don’t !
    Respect is what it’s all about & as long as no one disrepects me,
    (my bike, Ol’ Lady, friends I’m with, etc …) I have no problem with them.
    Rogue & Nicker are right, there is good & bad in every group of people.
    And usually the best will always rise to the top.
    Group mentality is a very dangerous thing, one on one, most patch holders are regular guys
    put them all together, it becomes a different story.

  23. 23 Bean're Jul 24th, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    I am also curious why a law enforcement club is not subject to The RICO act. It would seem that they indeed are above the law.

  24. 24 Cool Bike, Mr! Jul 24th, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    To paraphrase Groucho Marx – I would never join a club that would have me for a member.

  25. 25 domino Jul 24th, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Police with 3 piece patch… Really? Why?!?!

    Michael Koepke, vice president of the Yavapai County Hells Angels chapter, “They give a bad name to motorcycle clubs.”

  26. 26 cbarter Jul 24th, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    Wow, startling story. Didn’t realize that the sophistication of so many bike riding police appear to be that of a 14 – 15 year old youth. ‘Lets start a cool gang’…dear god, I fear for America.

  27. 27 ROGUE Jul 25th, 2013 at 6:53 am

    I have received numerous comments on this to my e-mail. One of the reasons is that some of them for personal or business reasons do not want to post publically and That does include Fear Of Retaliation from Members of Law Enforcement.
    Here is one I have removed the personal information from.

    “Rogue, you would have to assume that law enforcement had a level of credibility before you could
    make any assumptions about their actions hurting that credibility. Less and less of them have any
    credibility, not that any of them had much to start with even 30 – 40 years ago. Too many younger
    cops jump at any opportunity to show off their bad boy image and that is both in and out of uniform.
    I won’t post any public comment. I don’t need some local dickweed with a badge looking me up
    just to prove something.”

  28. 28 ROGUE Jul 25th, 2013 at 6:55 am

    Here is one from a woman friend.

    Absofreakenlutely! I’ve been at a couple of these events… some Police (not all) have a mentality that…. well…. let’s put it this way… I was allowed to be groped by a drunken broad at one of their parties (A Marine Corps Birthday Ball) an 8 year old was humped in front of his parents…. and the Commandant (Police officer) got a lap dance that made it to Facebook!!

    Unreal~ think they’re above reproach!

  29. 29 Cochise Jul 25th, 2013 at 7:34 am

    What comes out of a man, is already inside of that man!!!

  30. 30 ROGUE Jul 25th, 2013 at 9:11 am

    And we have not even touched on Selective Law Enforcement.
    You know when they arrest one person for something But let another go for some reason

    BRIEFS Fired trooper fights to get job back

    TALLAHASSEE — A fired Florida state trooper is fighting to get back his job after giving a speeding legislator a break on a ticket.

    Former trooper Charles Swindle appeared Wednesday in a personnel hearing where he answered questions about his decision to issue citations for no insurance to two legislators in November.

    The first part of the hearing included video footage where Swindle can be heard telling lawmakers that he was giving them the citation instead of writing them an expensive speeding ticket.

    His attorney insists the trooper was following a long practice of giving legislators a break.

  31. 31 Terence Tory Jul 25th, 2013 at 9:13 am

    I’ve got a great deal of respect for good cops, I think I’ve met two standard beat cops, one CSI guy and one detective. That’s all the good ones. The rest often shoot themselves in the foot with their own stupidity, and their mouths with their lack of logic.

    The most independent loner bikers I know are way more honest and standup, and have way more respect amongst their peers than any club guy.Even from club guys.

    In even good bikers, clubs make up for a deficiency in their character, even a minor one. These LARPer transbulletproofvestites need two “clubs” to plug the deficiency hole times two. How sad are they. Sad times two.

  32. 32 bigitch Jul 25th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    badges? BADGES?!!

    We don’t need no stinkin’ badges

  33. 33 Manny Jul 25th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    This isn’t a motorcycle issue. Motorcyles belong to everyone… bikers, enthusiasts, rockers, commuters, cops, criminals, kids, parents, street riders, off road riders… everyone can own and ride a bike.

    With no judgment offered on one’s choice to be a gang member, or a cop (or both, it seems), this is an issue of lifestyle choices and consequences – and the real problem for me is that motorcycling is getting roped in to the negative outlook.

    You’re likely to get approached as a m/c gang member or have related issues if you choose to ride around on American cruisers looking and dressing like bonafide gang members. Even if your intention is the best (like the Blue Knights), if you choose to emulate the physical traits of another known lifestyle or group (like biker gangs), you’re going to eventually be mistaken or assumed to be part of that. A police officer thinking about joining up with one of these groups, and embracing the “dress code” needs to think a little more about that. But I can see why its so easy for police/military members to slip into this without a second thought.

    Original post-war gang members were alienated WW-II veterans banding together to take care of one another in a society that wasn’t going to take care of them. That’s why all the gang patches and adornments. After wearing and being identified by your military uniform and unit patches for so long, that’s just what those guys knew coming home from a military lifestyle.

    Fast forward 50 or 60 years and the issue is the same, but flipped on its head. It must seem so easy for a police officer who also identifies professionally with uniform patches and pins for awards and identification to slip into the same style of physical self identification now clearly most associated by general society as the indication of a “gang” of sorts. And with so many young veterans coming home from new wars, ganging together to take care of one another is only going to feed the machine, flipping it back around at some point maybe, but feeding the same issue regardless.

    But the real issue that concerns me (and I hope others here), as an independant motorcycle enthusiast who rides everything from American V-Twin to dirt to scooters, is that because these folks who live outlaw gang lives, and those who emulate it by their chosen trappings and get caught up in an outlaw gang member lifestyle, have also chosen motorcycles to be as ubiquitious an indication of thier lifestyle as thier “uniforms” of patches and pins, the motorcyclist in general, even the guy without the patches and pins, suffers from the halo effect of society’s view that motorcyclists are and act like gang members.

    What’s really going to suck, is when non-riding law makers begin to make the same association of motorcycles being a part of gang activity, and start making direct and peripheral laws intended to disrupt the gangs illegal activities, but screwing the rest of non-gang involved motorcyclists at the same time. Motorcycle specific checkpoints anyone?

    Think, live and ride smart fellers!

  34. 34 rob Jul 25th, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Qualified members of law enforcement,both active and retired can legally carry a firearm in the USA under HR218 of 2003/04. It is more often referred to as the law enforcement officers safety act…………

  35. 35 Jusmecuz Jul 26th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Most people don’t realize the amount of voluntary interaction that law enforcement has with 1% clubs. Most interaction, or their attempt at which, is always of the off-duty type. Their obsession with the life is why they ride around with other cops and try to imitate and portray something they are not and never will be.

    Cops/LEO clubs are a joke.

  36. 36 ROGUE Jul 26th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    This sent to me and thought some of you may be interested in it.
    BAD COPS Taking People’s Property In Minnesota

    Editorial: State is fumbling on forfeiture reform
    Lawmakers should enact the strongest possible changes.
    Last update: May 2, 2010 – 6:43 PM
    FORFEITURE RANKING
    Minnesota law enforcement agencies, ranked by number of forfeiture incidents (based on 2008 data):
    1 Minneapolis Police Department
    2 Minnesota State Patrol
    3 Southeast Minnesota Drug Task Force
    4 Dakota County Drug Task Force
    5 Anoka-Hennepin Drug Task Force
    6 Rochester Police Department
    7 Bloomington Police Department
    8 Crow Wing County Sheriff’s Office
    9 Wright County Sheriff’s Office
    10 Roseville Police Department
    (Sources: Minnesota State Auditor and the Minnesota American Civil Liberties Union)
    The people lawmakers should be listening to as they consider reforming the state’s forfeiture laws are those whose property was allegedly targeted by rogue officers in the now-disbanded Metro Gang Strike Force: immigrants, minorities and the poor.
    Instead, it’s clear from the Legislature’s frustrating lack of progress on meaningful forfeiture law reform that those with the most influence at the Capitol are law enforcement lobbyists, whose organizations’ members have a financial interest in the status quo, since forfeiture proceeds can be used to beef up agencies’ budgets.
    Another concern: One organization opposing the toughest reforms, the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association, has three board members who have served on the Metro Gang Strike Force Advisory Board: Dave Thomalla, Robert Jacobson and Cari Gerlicher. Why are lawmakers kowtowing to these self-serving organizations?
    Law enforcement’s use of forfeiture has increased dramatically in Minnesota — that’s a key reason strong reforms are needed. In 1996, there were 1,408 forfeitures reported in the state, according to the state auditor’s office. In 2007, there were almost 5,000. Agencies also now make more money selling forfeited goods. In 1996, the gross proceeds reported were just more than $2 million. In 2007, that figure climbed to $4.8 million.
    Keep in mind that those totals may not include the goods seized by the Strike Force, since officials often didn’t bother to accurately track or report their figures. And because state law doesn’t require agencies to report DUI forfeitures, the figures do not reflect the number and value of vehicles seized and sold (some repeat offenders’ cars are eligible). A bill authored by state Sen. Mee Moua, DFL-St. Paul, would require reporting of this type of forfeiture.

  37. 37 nicker Jul 26th, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    Many,many years ago my roommate and i threw a bachelor party for a friend. Our short street was packed with bikes.

    As i recall the party lasted well into the dawn hours. I’m sure the neighbors would have loved to have call the cops, but a CA HP bike was already parked in front of the house……… 🙂

    Point is, its not about motorcycling, its about what dome people try to do with it.

    -nicker-

  38. 38 Josh Parker Jul 26th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    Nicker. What means “dome people”?

  39. 39 monkey waxer Jul 27th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Free country, everyone is entitled to dress up like a bad ass pirate and act like an asshole. Cops are the lucky ones, during the day they get paid to dress up like a filthy pig too.

  40. 40 Free rider Jul 27th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Instant A$$hole, just add a Harley. No matter what the patch, the Blue Knights carry a 3 piece patch and are just a group of wanna be’s. It only takes 1% of the group to make it bad for all. If you want to ride, just ride – gang not included.

  41. 41 ROGUE Jul 27th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Rob
    Why would anyone need a safety act unless they did something that would cause someone to get back at them?

    Qualified members of law enforcement,both active and retired can legally carry a firearm in the USA under HR218 of 2003/04. It is more often referred to as the law enforcement officers safety act…………

    Are you telling me even though there are laws about Not Carrying a gun in the bars in Sturgis that members of Law Enforcement are Allowed To Break This Law?

  42. 42 rob Jul 28th, 2013 at 3:48 am

    Rogue,i don’t know if it is law not to carry,or a rule. If it is a law,i myself would not go against it,same as not carrying in certain govt buildings and in or on school grounds…………can’t speak for others……..

  43. 43 Freedom Jul 28th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    “Only the Bandidos can wear a Texas bottom rocker” – what is THAT, the LAW of the jungle? It is all BS…..wear what you want, associate with the folks you want and ride what you want. You enjoy selling drugs and riding Harleys, then join the Hells Angels where you have something in common – that is what it is all about, spending time with like minded people. Live FREE and RIDE.

  44. 44 J.H. Jul 28th, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    All I can say to “Freedom” is throw a Texas bottom rocker on your piece of shit 3 piece rag and come to Texas and see how long you last. RIP It is the Law of the Jungle(Streets}, you must either be a total dumb ass or a cop or both.. BFFB

  45. 45 Nobody Jul 29th, 2013 at 9:16 am

    They can form ‘clubs’ if they want, its a Free Country*

    LEOs have only had credibility in golden/silver age comic books, and in Leave it to Beaver type shows.

    . “I know the badge has been tarnished, and we will work relentlessly to regain the community’s full trust and confidence,”

    Better part of half a century, several countries, and living one side of the US to the other.. I’ve known a few good leos, but they are very much an exception to the rule. The bushel is at best half rotted, and occasionally a good one lands in the bin. And they either rot, or get booted for crossing the blue line by speaking & acting when they see fellow officers doing the wrong thing.

    Positions of power attract the corrupt like flies, and corrode the naive looking to do good.

    But that’s my cynical 2cents, the salt shaker is next to the pepper and ketchup.

    *Some restrictions apply. Rules subject to change and interpretation by secretly held court hearings and/or meetings.Despite proclamations to the contrary you are guilty until proven else wise.

  46. 46 Jeff Decker Jul 29th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    The blue have always been the biggest, most organized and dangerous motorcycle club this nation has has ever seen. They are a brotherhood above the law, why would they want to be members of a smaller, less significant club that subjects them to the prejudice every other 1% group endures?

  47. 47 steve Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    laugh every time I see one of those “clubs” …drink with you at a party like they belong and then bust you the next day like you’re a lowlife biker……sickening the “real” biker world allows them to exist…..

  48. 48 Joe Nov 4th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    I’ve seen some references here to RICO. I’m guessing that those of you who suggested prosecution under RICO are either unfamiliar with how it actually works or did not go to law school. So, here’s the deal.

    RICO originally enacted as part of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970, specifically in §901. In essence, any person who has committed any two of 35 crimes within a 10 year period can be charged with Racketeering. But here is the important part: the crime has to be committed by members of an ongoing criminal enterprise. There is no minimum on how many people need to be members of the enterprise, because most jurisdictions only require two or more people to form a conspiracy.

    That said, a motorcycle club formed by police officers would most certainly NOT be immune from any criminal prosecution for crimes they commit or attempt to commit. They are not government organizations, and therefore would not be able to claim sovereign immunity.

    For example, a union made up of public (government) employees must adhere to the same laws and regulations as unions in the private sector.

    As to the topic at hand, I call the increase in MCs the “Sons of Anarchy” syndrome. The show has resulted in a bunch of bad ideas….

  49. 49 Frank Soto Nov 16th, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Dang, never seen so many felons on one page

  50. 50 my name is not your buisness Jan 11th, 2014 at 2:00 am

    Everyone is so worried about cops wearing a patch when they ride. Last I checked we lived in the land of the free. Every man is accountable for his own actions regardless what uniform or cut he is wearing. Stop trying to put my profession down because some clowns wearing a badge don’t know how to handle their own stupidity. There is good and bad in every walk of life. I will wear my badge proudly and I will wear my club patch with pride. And any man who thinks he can tell me otherwise is a fool.

  51. 51 LAB Jan 11th, 2014 at 9:37 am

    Lot of mis-information in this article. Opinions and speculation seems to be the basis for this crap of an article. J.H. Anyone can put whatever they want on their backs and don’t need permission from anyone who is a patched 1%er. The general public who wishes to fly a cut will seek the approval of the dominant 1% club in the area because they don’t want to cause a problem for themselves. In my opinion the bottom rocker is only a symbol of where a certain club is from, home state… This is a MC protocol, developed by 1%er clubs and is not “LAW” in any state. The dominant club in a given area usually intimidates others especially other MC’s they deem subpar to their club. I’m not sure who you think your are, but do you and your club or any other club ask permission of the general public and the police, to commit crimes in certain areas, fight, drink, sell/ do drugs, pretty much rape and plunder and think for some reason a certain group has to ask your permission to wear a patch on their back. The POLICE, if they wich to form a LEMC, will never ask a 1% club if is ok for them to fly a state bottom rocker. EVER!! If they do, you have my blessing to spit in their face. I’m personally not in a LEMC, but if I was, I would have no issue conducting myself appropriately and professionally. And after a full weekend of riding w/ my mates and enjoying time w/ brothers in arms I would have no problem returning to work and taking any 1%er to jail for any number of criminal reasons. This response wasn’t directed at you specifically, and if you wish to think I targeted you and you are somehow offended, then I don’t really give a shit. I’m a man 1st, a cop 2nd and everything I do after that is well just that, after… However I would die for my profession, and would even die for my fellow man, and that chance exsists every day. J.H., and the rest of the mindless sheep who want to think ill of cops wishing to participate in LEMC’s, go back into history and I bet you find LE/ Military and motorcycles have been linked through time longer than any 1%er affiliated group.

  52. 52 Shaft Jan 12th, 2014 at 10:15 am

    I love when I hear that LE club are wanbabes, wannabe of what? Acting like gangsters? Most LE clubs where a 3 piece patch because its our constitution right… I’m in a LE/PS club and in LE and we do not go around acting like gangsters…. I hear so may people (haters) saying LEOs hide behind the badge… Well I see alot of people hide behind their colors/gangs. Can you say hypocrite.
    As for LE Clubs breaking the law, if cops cross that fine line, then they should be held accountable for their actions just like everyone else.. But don’t judge all cops the same because you wouldn’t like if I judge you as a certain stereo type. As a LEO I never bothered anyone who didn’t deserve it and I always give respect until it no longer a option…. Again, I’m not saying all LE clubs are perfect but most are so judge accordingly….

  53. 53 enforcer Jan 12th, 2014 at 11:43 am

    i,am a member of a lawenforcement motorcycle club and i think we all have the same rights as any motorcycle club to wear a 3 price patch that has are club name and location.what gives the other bicker gangs a right to say we should not have them. it tells the people who we are and what we stand for,just like any other club.we do not hide behind a badge,we are sworn lawenforcement officers and we are on duty 24/7 and if other bicker clubs starts any trouble we are sworn to enforce the law.24/7 on or off duty.so why would any other club try to fight with the police.we are not out there to break the law,but we have every right to ride and if the law is broke we are sworn to enforce it.other bicker clubs do not like it that we have the right to enforce the law that they some times break.i know a few outlaws and they respect me and i respect them if i,am at a bar or club and the outlaws are doing things i do not like then i will leave, i do not try to cause trouble for them and they respect that.i,am not out there looking for outlaw gangs breaking the law i,am a person who likes to ride and go to bike shows and clubs.

  54. 54 citizen joe Jan 12th, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    I agree with Frank, my name is not your business, and especially Lab. Too many people on here are sheep. They are grown ass men asking permission from 1% clubs to wear attire. Stupid people. Cops do have rights as citizens. As long as they act like normal humans I don’t care what they wear. On the rare occasion that something happens bad in public it will be dealt with. It appears people want to focus on anything they do because they represent authority. My guess is media and fantasy drive people to talk about things they assume they know about. For instance, in Texas they have LEO mc clubs who have been there in El Paso for over ten years wearing Texas bottom rockers. There has never been a fight shooting or anything involving them and the Bandidos. When something happens it makes sensational news. Some of you on here really take this biker protocal way too serious. It’s a motorcycle thing, not caveman antics full of brainless neanderthal men, or is it? Just ride and be happy you are alive you stupid fooks. Quit worrying about what someone wears. Respect the individual not the club or department they work for. Damnnn children.

  55. 55 Elvis Jan 12th, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    It sems like a cop bashing by “some” idiotic unfortunates on this page, but then again anyone wanting to ride motorcycles is going to get a dirtbags perspective in the motorcycle world. I wouldn’t expect anything less than a little mud slinging by bottom feeders. You all hated the ,”RUBS” when they started riding. Now its the cops. Bunch of crybabies. Just saying it like it is. Live free and ride on.

  56. 56 Pablo Jan 12th, 2014 at 9:20 pm

    To any law enforcement administrator or cop out there who says that membership in an LE MC makes a police officer untrustworthy I would remind you that you may be employed by the government but you work for the PEOPLE. To suggest that LEO clubs should not exist is just handing the outlaws your own badge. The notion that anybody should surrender their Constitutional rights for political correctness is unacceptable. If anything you should recognize that the evolution of motorcycle clubs to include law enforcement clubs is both inevitable and perfectly legitimate. Stick to investigating CRIME, that’s what we pay you for.

    To the LEMC’s out there I would remind you that you swore to defend and protect the Constitution of the United State at all times. This includes the rights of ALL citizens. Part of your mandate should be to recognize the right of all law abiding motorcycle clubs to exist and operate free of oppression from outlaws and those without proper authority.

    As for the unlawful behavior by cops that is suggested here. Every cop knows that no profession polices itself like law enforcement. We get our share of bad apples and some of them may be attracted to MC life. Our agencies and our clubs do a good job of rooting out the trouble makers. We don’t want them either, Crimes by cops get way more attention than crimes by others, but they are, in fact, much less frequent. The media loves to generate chicken feed for the low rent trash-talkers.

    To the outlaw MC’s who believe that fear and intimidation of smaller or non like-minded clubs is OK, you are wrong. The same law that protects you protects us also. A free society recognizes your right to exist within the law, as it recognizes ours. We all answer to the people, under the rule of law, in a constitutional society…..period.

    While the numbers aren’t really known, we do know the real outlaws of the MC world are very few in numbers compared to the law abiding bikers MC or not. These people are entitled to their right to enjoy the biker lifestyle they have chosen for themselves without stigmatization by ignorant writers who call themselves journalists.

    This is my perspective as an LEO of over thirty years and a biker for even longer.

  57. 57 Elvis Jan 13th, 2014 at 3:33 am

    Well put Pablo.

  58. 58 KABAR Jan 13th, 2014 at 9:25 am

    why cant we all just get along? There are bad apples in EVERY bunch. LE and PS clubs want to do what we all want to do and that is ride and enjoy the comradery that we all that are in a club enjoy. You cant have a RC in my area because of the 1% having a chip on their shoulder. Not all clubs are gangs. RICO comes in whenever you are involved with crime. If you are a true 99%er there will be no crime in your organization. so that point is mute.

  59. 59 Rev William J. Sarasin "Preacher" Jan 13th, 2014 at 9:37 am

    Bad apples are around but not in Exiled Saints LE M/C in Michigan. All have sinned…Romans 3:23

  60. 60 duhhh Jan 13th, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    Rogue, seriously this is a stupid article. Why are we even discussing the rights of people to assemble and ride in any manner or clothing they want. If you truly believe in OUR constitution you would shut up and let people have their life without making excuses or dumb opinions. You are a tool.

  61. 61 ROGUE Jan 13th, 2014 at 9:41 pm

    Retired cop guns down man for texting at Florida movie: sheriff

  62. 62 ROGUE Jan 14th, 2014 at 7:42 am

    Hey how about this news Ex-Officers Found Not Guilty in Kelly Thomas’ Beating Death

    Read more: http://ktla.com/2014/01/13/verdict-reached-in-trial-of-ex-officers-in-kelly-thomas-death/#ixzz2qNNdebKe

  63. 63 ROGUE Jan 14th, 2014 at 7:48 am

    Looks like the Boys In Blue do not like people exposing that some of their Gang are Bad Guys.
    For your information I am referring to the Gang called Law Enforcement and NOT any motorcycle club.
    I personally know of many case of members of law enforcement breaking the same laws they arrested people for but other cops let them go because they were fellow gang members.
    GOOD COPS Clean Up The Dirt and Corruption buy arresting Dirty Cops. How many of you can honestly say you have done that???

  64. 64 ROGUE Jan 14th, 2014 at 11:31 am

    Police Biker Clubs. Are They Hurting The Credibility Of Law Enforcement?

    Is the title of this post and it appears to have gotten away from that.
    Law Enforcement has every right to have motorcycle clubs, that is not disputed.
    Do Others In Law Enforcement think Law Enforcement Motorcycle Clubs are hurting their image?
    Well let them sort that out between themselves.
    Clean Up Law Enforcement by Arresting Bad and or Corrupt Ones!!!
    Yes there are bad in every walk of life But once you take a Oath To Enforce The Law it should be against ALL LAW BREAKERS!!!!!

  65. 65 Matrix Jan 14th, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    To the Rev. John “ROGUE” Herlihy,

    You seem to have dominated this discussion with your posts of news articles about “Bad LEO’s” but you haven’t addressed the question. “Police Biker Clubs. Are They Hurting The Credibility Of Law Enforcement?” On the contrary, what you have done is made it clear that the opposite could be of concern, “Are Bad LEO’s hurting the credibility of good Police Biker Clubs?”. That seems a little more important to me, how bout you?

    I understand your dislike for law enforcement and government, that’s your business, but as a seasoned biker veteran who understands what brotherhood means in the MC world, shouldn’t you be more concerned about the viability of the MC, even if it is a cop club? It might not be your brotherhood but it is a brotherhood nonetheless. With all due respect Rogue, you’re missing something very real here, your roots.

    To quote “Rooster” regarding the downfall of the HUNS MC, “Drugs, attitude, greed, lack of trust [and] respect for your brothers became our downfall.” He remembers a time when, “we were so tight and well entrenched…, good leadership by Rogue and other officers gave the club a tightness, a spirit and brotherhood that no club could match.” You had some bad blood get it, it happens doesn’t it. Sounds like it got out of hand though and that’s unfortunate.

    I cannot speak for all LE MC’s, just like you cannot speak for all Outlaw MC’s, but I can tell you this: As an MC, we are enjoying this same tightness,entrenchment, and spirit of brotherhood as you were privileged to back in that day. We follow the same protocols of respect and brotherhood, spend the same time and effort on Prospects to make sure they fit in to our culture, and hold our members to the same standards and expectations as the rest of the MC community. Whether or not you like it’s members, should not be relevant. It is an MC.

    I’m not a cop but I am an officer in a LE MC and it is my duty as an officer to keep a watchful eye and ensure these standards are met through example and training. It doesn’t matter to me who you are or what club you belong to, you’ll get my respect first, you’ve earned your patches. After that though, my respect will be earned. As the former International Prez of the HUNS MC, you know very well what it means to guard your club and it’s members from itself, let alone others. Failed clubs are a lesson to us. We earn and keep our patches just like the rest. You should respect that. Take the cop bashing to the proper venue and away from the MC world. It doesn’t belong here just like bashing an Outlaw MC doesn’t.

    As for the question, “Police Biker Clubs. Are They Hurting The Credibility Of Law Enforcement?”
    Not hardly. There’s not enough “bad” on LE MC’s to scare a gnat.

    Peace,
    ~Matrix

  66. 66 Pablo Jan 15th, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    To Matrix,
    Thank You. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

    To Rogue,
    There will always be a cultural tension between the LEMC and the 1% MC world. But only the most vocal trash talkers will escalate those tensions. Mostly, on both sides, we resign to just live and let live. Leadership on both sides know that trouble makers in our ranks will only hurt us all.

    Bad actors who draw the attention of the press hurt the credibility of their clubs no matter what patches they wear. This problem is only aggravated by journalists like this Zusha Elinson who paints a broad picture with miniscule information. This unfortunately,is where public opinion comes from. THreads like this, full of uninformed opinions feed the problem.

    The nation’s highways and byways are big enough for all of us and they belong to all of us. I have waved at you and you back at me when we pass at 65+ MPH. Neither of us knowing the other nor caring, in that moment, about our differences. A subtle show of mutual respect. Perhaps, a place to start. There is no consequence.

    Ride Safe, Have Fun
    Pablo

  67. 67 Rusty Jan 15th, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    No such thing as a cop mc. Cops who decide to throw a 3 piece patch on their back without respect to traditon are fakes. Just because they get away with it does not make it right. No patch holder in the biker community recognizes cops wearing “colors” as a motorcycle club. Just a group of duplicitous wannabe’s attempting to usurp something they envy.

  68. 68 Dusty needs a life Jan 15th, 2014 at 10:04 pm

    Dusty what a bunch of BS you spout. Your standatds are of no concern to LEMC’s. Keep flappinv your gums while we all go out and ride. Nothing you or anyone says will ever change that. Ride on. Elvis

  69. 69 Rusty needs a life Jan 15th, 2014 at 10:05 pm

    Rusty Dusty who?????

  70. 70 ROGUE Jan 16th, 2014 at 6:49 am

    Matrix:
    I do believe I have answered the question about “Police Biker Clubs. Are They Hurting The Creditability Of Law Enforcement” in an earlier post on January 14 at 11:31 and also in earlier posts.

    And yes I would say that BAD LEO”S are hurting the creditability of GOOD police Bike Clubs.

    I Do NOT Dislike Law Enforcement or The Government! As a matter of fact I have many friends in both. What I do Dislike is some of the people involved in both that violate the law.

    I know who I am and my feelings and comments are public knowledge and have been for a long time. They have Not Changed.

    You quote “Rooster” but you failed to also note his statement was made years after I resigned as International President of the HUNS MC to take over Connecticut Motorcycle Association when “Pappy” died so that the Fight For Freedom would continue. I might note that during my time in that position Connecticut Did Repeal Its Mandatory Helmet Law.

    Since I was out of the club when it disbanded I will not comment on it other than to say a problem did occur within the membership and when it was not solved the club was closed.

    Now if members of law enforcement will only work to clean up their organizations a lesson will have been learned. I am reffering to law enforcement and Not Police Clubs. Though I think we all will have to agree that some members of Police Motorcycle Clubs do violate the law. There are those in all parts of society that do so we will leave that to that for now.

    I do believe that members of police clubs do feel the same about each other and their club as do members of other clubs and that is the way it should be.

    I have also noted here many of the posts appear to be from LEO’s and or associates yet None Have Named The Club They Belong To. If they are proud of their club I would think they would let everyone one know who they are and the club they belong to. Just Sayin.

  71. 71 Mike Greenwald Jan 17th, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    “Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war, and millions have been killed because of this obedience. Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, and all the while the grand thieves are running and robbing the country. That’s our problem.”: Howard Zinn, from ‘Failure to Quit’

  72. 72 rd Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:49 pm

    i am in an lemc and you guys are funny saying we are a bunch of pussys hiding behind are badges well for one thing i am a correction officer who goes into a housing unit every day unarmed with 60 inmates if they want to kill me they can there is nothing i can do about it. i joined the army at 18 during a war to be a tanker but i guess i am a pussy. i respect all fear none and god dammit i will go where i want and wear what i want if you got a problem with us do something about it and unless you try to ballpeen me we can throw fists

  73. 73 The name "rogue" is defined Jan 18th, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    ROGUE, YOU TALK OUT OF BOTH ENDS. YOUR TALK OF CONTINUING THE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, SEEMS TO ONLY EXIST FOR CITIZENS AND NOT COPS. YOU REALLY ARE AN IDIOT. You despise cops and their right to exist in mc clubs. You are pathetic. BIG Bill

  74. 74 @@@The name "rogue" is defined Jan 18th, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    You have exposed Rogue. He is defenseless and obviosly failed his humanities class. He must have wore his dunce hat in class often.

  75. 75 Randy Jan 18th, 2014 at 2:13 pm

    I wonder why Rogue had such disdain for police? Could it be he is a criminal? Probably. He hates this label and just wants to point out and get back at the whole cop profession by placing posts of cops who have failed. Yes Rogue, cops do fail. we get that, now get over it. Your obvious hatred consumes your legitimate purpose if there is any.

  76. 76 King Tut Jan 18th, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    There is clearly a division on what people think and what rogue thinks. Rogue seems to get away from the article and places his own personal feelings into his responses. The fact of the matter is, this is a free country and anyone should be able to wear whatever they want to wear and ride wherever they want to ride. Obviously there will be a bone of contention between law enforcement and the one percenter type motorcycle riders. I opine that rogue does not want law enforcement in his biker community. I say that it is none of his business and his opinions will not matter in the end anyway. For that matter neither will mine. Through evolution motorcycling has come in many directions with many variations of riders. The only problem I have is with those people that want to say who is and who is not a biker. Those are the separatist who are usually criminal minded people and against authority. Although the so-called 1% want their freedoms intact, they don’t want others around that wear different patches that represent authority. Well that’s what school kids do on the playground. Grow up. Stop trying to intimidate people and attempt at being a badboy. I guess I can’t stand some of the so-called 1% er guys who claim territory like a pack of animals and will beat up anyone who comes into their area because of what they wear. Those are the “real pussies.” Anyway, I just like riding and tey to stay away from those clubs that want to act like kids. Usually they are the one percenters but I don’t put it past anyone. Rogue, seems to be a basher here which leads me to think he has had more than one past run in with law enforcement. Poor baby.
    Johnny Rocket

  77. 77 aka rc Jan 19th, 2014 at 1:17 am

    Having read the “editorial” “Police Biker Clubs. Are They Hurting The Credibility Of Law Enforcement?” My immediate thought was it’s a no brainer. An exagerrated example for illustration: Do members of Alcoholics Anonymous who continue to drink hurt the integrity of A.A. ?

    Attempting to engage in some critical thinking on the above example I found two things crucial to any conclusion I might arrive at,

    1. A.A. historically and by it’s traditions is not overly concerned with public perception using principles of anonymity to, hopefully, discourage the public spot light.

    2. Police on the other hand must be concerned with pubic perception as the public spot light is on them 24/7. As it should be. As we are the ones that pay them, we authorize them to carry guns and we accord them a greater amount of power than other individuals, e.g. arrest and the execution of warrants. They work for us and as an employer I like to know what my employees are up to!

    I personally know people who work in prisons, therapeutic environments and for state and local governments including LEO. To hold these jobs they are speciffically prohibited from associating with persons who have been arrested for certain crimes or who are in the act of engaging in unlawful behavior. Bike rallies anyone? If they had their pictures taken at certain events they would be fired.

    Now some may say that is comparing apples to oranges. That would be a specious argument at best. Although apples and oranges look and taste different. They are both fruits. Some fruits make a good cobbler and some don’t. But even though they are both fruits they disprove the axiom that you can not judge a book by it’s cover. Because in such cases you can. How long can I “act as if” while wearing a police uniform before I am busted for impersonating a law enforcement officer?

    So that was the train of thought before I even got to the comments. To be honest, from a macro perspective the comments scared the hell out of me. Not because they were made by “Bikers” and/or “leo”, but because of the hypocrisy and what would appear to be a lack of depth of understanding from both sides as to the historical and socialogical perspectives on the argument. To such an extent, that were one to carefully read over the comments more than once, one would find many of the writers contradict themselves.

    EXAMPLE:
    enforcer
    Jan 12th, 2014 at 11:43 am
    i,am a member of a lawenforcement motorcycle club and i think we all have the same rights as any motorcycle club to wear a 3 price patch that has are club name and location.what gives the other bicker gangs a right to say we should not have them. it tells the people who we are and what we stand for,just like any other club.we do not hide behind a badge,we are sworn lawenforcement officers and we are on duty 24/7 and if other bicker clubs starts any trouble we are sworn to enforce the law.24/7 on or off duty.so why would any other club try to fight with the police.we are not out there to break the law,but we have every right to ride and if the law is broke we are sworn to enforce it.other bicker clubs do not like it that we have the right to enforce the law that they some times break.i know a few outlaws and they respect me and i respect them if i,am at a bar or club and the outlaws are doing things i do not like then i will leave, i do not try to cause trouble for them and they respect that.i,am not out there looking for outlaw gangs breaking the law i,am a person who likes to ride and go to bike shows and clubs.

    “we are sworn lawenforcement officers and we are on duty 24/7 and if other bicker clubs starts any trouble we are sworn to enforce the law.24/7 on or off duty.”

    And in the same comment:

    “i know a few outlaws and they respect me and i respect them if i,am at a bar or club and the outlaws are doing things i do not like then i will leave, i do not try to cause trouble for them and they respect that”

    Which is it? Either/or? When do you turn a blind eye and when do you not? When it is convienent?

    The very nature of the “lifestyle” is such that one is, at the very least, risking guilt by association. Either the “outlaws” or the “leo” or even “Joe citizen” are comprimised by the presence of each other at certain events unless of course some arrangement has been made. Which we do know does occur and naivete nor denial can not cancel that out. The 24/7 aspects of the comment above dictates that “leo” must understand that their presence alone at certain functions inhibits the freedoms and enjoyments of others at some events. Historically it has been your actions that have led to that discomfort. EXAMPLE: At this point in time more people in this country believe marijuana should not be against the law. The laws are all over the map regarding marijuana in the country. But like it or not, you as LEO whether you agree with the law or not are obligated to enforce it. We on the other hand haveno idea when you may or may not choose to enforce and we can not be expected to read your minds.

    And if that means, well one should not be breaking the law, then please tell me that “leo” never at these events smokes a joint or enjoys a little nudity? Why risk placing oneself in such a situation?
    Those of us who may feel an obligation to violate an unjust law as all freedom fighters should may find your presence inhibiting, which of course eventually breeds the very resentment you wish to avoid.

    “Leo” must accept another historical fact evidenced by my own personal experience. I have been profiled, pulled over and had my possessions trashed so many times I sought legal advice. It was as follows, “leave it alone or it will get worse.” Which I get, LEO does have a brotherhood and it is strong. There is a lesson, in that respect, for many “Bikers”. But equal justice does not apply in our worlds as I can not pull you over and trash your stuff. You see, maybe some of you today have ccaaught glimpse of who and what some of “we” are, and want to experience that. But plese keep in mind you have many generations of creating distrust and you still have many among you that hurt you badly. In fact I can not for the life of me understand why a large number of you have not marched on the Tallahassee,Fl police department to protest the shame they have brought upon all of you (If you are not aware of the goings on of that department, or the department of Canton, Ohio and others then are not ready yet. Because you see, survival dictates I know what is happening in my arena).

    On the other hand I do know good cops. Three at least have pulled my ass out of a crack for no other reason than it was the right thing to do. I have tattooed many. We do not however ride together. Because yes, there are the rituals and traditions that must be upheld and we all have to pay our dues to gain the “nebulous respect”. In my arena it is those rituals and traditons that are laws that keep me safe when I can not depend on you. I can’t watch you or yours stomp some kid or allow “your brother” to stomp some kid and then watch as you keep your mouth shut without stomping the shit out of the dude that brings you discredit. If I see that do not expect me to give you any latitude because you throw on a cut and hop on a motorcycle. Hold those who violate the rights of others accountable.

    Referencing “freedom” and/or “fights for freedom” and/or “independence” I can only cringe and often times want to hang my head in shame when I hear a “biker” mouth those words. Hypocrisy is the sole province of no one and in this area “Bikers” have become a joke. Helmet laws were not the motivating factor beind bikers rights movements and have become an albatross around the bikers neck keeping him/her from moving onto the bigger picture we read about everyday with respect to the NSA and thecorporate/government aliance who via ITS may successfully render your motorcycle a dinasour some day.

    Nobody is “Free” by themselves! Nobody is Independent! To fail to understand that is to suffer well the illusion taught you by the propagandist.

    You can not be free if you do not understand that your freedom is predicated on the willingness of you or someone else to die for said freedom. That means if you value freedom, when you see the rights of another individual being violated, whether you agree with what that individual is, looks, like or thinks or not, YOU are responsible to stand up, if not for him or her, but for the rights he or she has as gauranteed by the U.S. constitution and the bill of rights of this country. Each time you fail to do that you drive another nail into the coffiinn of your own liberty!

    So LEO you are going to have to take a step back and look at yourselves in all respects. As to LEO clubs, ya know, ya don’t have to wear black leather vests, ask yourself the need to dress like your an undercover cop. And to BIKER’s (and I use the term loosely) you are going to have to ask yourself why for the most part you talk the talk but do not walk the walk. You talk freedom while letting others shit on you. Some of you even give money to organizations that claim to represent you only to rape you because they know so many are to lazy to even ask where the fuck there money is going to. And please, please, please do not wave at me when you ride by if your not going to stop if I am broke down. Makes me want to look for you.

    We all need to take some time to look at who we really are and why we really are. Truth be known, I know a few people don’t even own a motorcycle that are more “Biker” than most “Bikers.” Cop or no cop!

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