New Motorcycles Like New Cars Should Be Included In Stimulus Plan.

motorcycles4saleYou know now that the stimulus package includes a sales tax credit for buyers of brand new cars and trucks (the provision for tax deduction of loan interest has been removed at the last minute). Logically AMA is asking lawmakers to add motorcycles in this stimulus plan. And of course I agree. Not only because sales of new motorcycles have been hit hard, but also because they are more fuel-efficient. easing traffic congestion and not damaging infrastructure as badly as 4-wheel vehicles. Do we need to organize a national coalition ride to the White House?

Update 02/13/09 at 11.30 am. Our government just announced that motorcycles will be included in the stimulus package. “The bill would let those who buy a new car, light vehicle, recreational vehicle or motorcycle in 2009 deduct state and local sales taxes as well as any excise tax charged in the purchase. The deduction would be available to those earning less than $125,000 ($250,000 for joint filers). It will be an above-the-line deduction, meaning even taxpayers who don’t itemize may take it in addition to the standard deduction. Estimated cost: $1.7 billion”.

50 Responses to “New Motorcycles Like New Cars Should Be Included In Stimulus Plan.”

  1. 1 Mike Greenwald Feb 13th, 2009 at 8:18 am

    At first glance, a national coalition ride to the White House sounds good. It has been my observation that coordinated ride to each and every state capitol would gain much more notice and much more media attention for a much longer period of time. This becomes a more equitable distribution of responsibility, accountability and expenditure amongst the riders in each and every state. Riding is being eroded and further restricted, manipulated and taxed within each and every state. Historically, the same issue of taxation without representation seemingly is going to be a similarly applicable protest now on so many levels of government.

  2. 2 Fred Feb 13th, 2009 at 10:14 am

    This is where our Industry misses out. We should have a national LOBBYIST for our Industry. We are all suffering together. Cars, Drug and oil companies spend millions on a lobbyist to voice concerns. ( and get what they want) Why can’t we all have a national fund to protect us? We are out here by the thousands!!!
    Any of you old enough to remember the March of Dimes campaign? The government would not give money to research polio. One of the researchers asked every family in America to donate 10 cents and send it to the president. Over 1,2 million dollars was collected that year in the 1940’s. It took 20 years for the March of Dimes to find a vaccine, but we did it.
    Why can’t we do the same to save our Industry? Manufacturers, Dealers, Parts suppliers. We COULD be a dominant force in our government. What’s 10 cents, or 5 dollars to all of us yearly?

  3. 3 p Feb 13th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Motorcycles ARE added to the stimulus plan for tax breaks, just like cars.

  4. 4 Fausto Simoes Feb 13th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    So a lot of people went into debt over their heads, living beyond their means,
    This debt was sold to companies that couldn’t afford to absorb the losses from people defaulting on this debt, the government borrowed a huge amount of money to keep these companies going and now the only way out of this is for the government to borrow another staggering amount of money to stimulate the economy-is it just me or does this whole chain of events and reactions to events seem to defy common sense?

    Maybe it’s possible that some problems just can’t be fixed by throwing money at them hoping they just go away. So if nothing changes is the goverment going to try to “stimulate” the economy again?

    I guess eventually this road becomes a dead end.

  5. 5 Bobfather Feb 13th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    In response to the call for a national lobbyist. We are currently looking into the possibility of having a dedicated motorcycle arm of SEMA to help with issues just like this as well as over regulation by both state and federal boards. The one spearheading this is Ketih “Bandit” Ball from Bikernet.. I have volunteered to be a part of this as have a large number of people from our industry. Personally I think it’s about damn time we have our voices heard.

  6. 6 Fred Feb 13th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    THank you “P” for finding this article. Someone did think about us on that “house on the hill” I think we got lucky here, though. I like the idea of the SEMA arm. At least I was not alone in my thinking. It would be a powerful alliance.

  7. 7 Sam Feb 13th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    If lawmakers really want to trigger a recovery, they’ll shelve their massive ‘stimulus’ bill — a trillion-dollar debt plan that would actually weaken the economy. They’d do much better to take a simple but powerful step: reduce the corporate income tax rate to zero. Our nation’s convoluted tax code (so confusing that even a high percentage of President Barack Obama’s nominees apparently can’t understand it) keeps a small army of accountants and tax lawyers employed. A simplified code might put them out of work. But that would be a small price to pay for a fairer system, one that helps create many more jobs for ordinary Americans. And creating jobs is what a federal stimulus is supposed to be all about. Lawmakers should think carefully before they borrow hundreds of billions of dollars, digging a deeper debt hole and expanding the size and scope of government. Far better to eliminate corporate taxes — and unleash the job-creation power of our nation’s entrepreneurs. The current economic recovery package will actually hurt the economy more in the long run than if he were to do nothing, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday.

    CBO, the official scorekeepers for legislation, said the House and Senate bills will help in the short term but result in so much government debt that within a few years they would crowd out private investment, actually leading to a lower Gross Domestic Product over the next 10 years than if the government had done nothing.

    CBO estimates that by 2019 the Senate legislation would reduce GDP by 0.1 percent to 0.3 percent on net. [The House bill] would have similar long-run effects, CBO said in a letter to Sen. Judd Gregg, New Hampshire Republican, who was tapped by Mr. Obama on Tuesday to be Commerce Secretary.

    The House last week passed a bill totaling about $820 billion while the Senate is working on a proposal reaching about $900 billion in spending increases and tax cuts.

    But Republicans and some moderate Democrats have balked at the size of the bill and at some of the spending items included in it, arguing they won’t produce immediate jobs, which is the stated goal of the bill.

    The budget office had previously estimated service the debt due to the new spending could add hundreds of millions of dollars to the cost of the bill — forcing the crowd-out.

    CBOs basic assumption is that, in the long run, each dollar of additional debt crowds out about a third of a dollars worth of private domestic capital, CBO said in its letter.

    CBO said there is no crowding out in the short term, so the plan would succeed in boosting growth in 2009 and 2010.

    The agency projected the Senate bill would produce between 1.4 percent and 4.1 percent higher growth in 2009 than if there was no action. For 2010, the plan would boost growth by 1.2 percent to 3.6 percent.

    CBO did project the bill would create jobs, though by 2011 the effects would be minuscule.

    there is $5.2 billion for community-development block grants and “neighborhood stabilization activities,” which ACORN is eligible to apply for. Finally, the bill allocates $650 million for activities related to the switch from analog to digital TV, including $90 million to educate “vulnerable populations” that they need to go out and get their converter boxes or lose their TV signals. Obviously, this is stimulative stuff: Any economist will tell you that you can’t get higher productivity and economic growth without access to reruns of Family Feud.

    $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
    $380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children program
    $300 million for grants to combat violence against women
    $2 billion for federal child-care block grants
    $6 billion for university building projects
    $15 billion for boosting Pell Grant college scholarships
    $4 billion for job-training programs, including $1.2 billion for “youths” up to the age of 24
    $1 billion for community-development block grants
    $4.2 billion for “neighborhood stabilization activities”
    $650 million for digital-TV coupons; $90 million to educate “vulnerable populations”

    The stimulus package’s tax provisions are poorly designed and should be replaced with something closer to what the Republican Study Committee in the House has proposed. Obama would extend some of the business tax credits included in the stimulus bill Congress passed about a year ago, and this is good as far as it goes. The RSC plan, however, also calls for a cut in the corporate-tax rate that could be expected to boost wages, lower prices, and increase profits, stimulating economic activity across the board.

    The RSC plan also calls for a 5 percent across-the-board income-tax cut, which would increase productivity by providing additional incentives to save, work, and invest. An across-the-board payroll-tax cut might make even more sense, especially for low- to middle-income workers who don’t make enough to pay income taxes. Obama’s “Making Work Pay” tax credit is aimed at helping these workers, but it uses a rebate check instead of a rate cut. Rebate checks are not effective stimulus, as we discovered last spring: They might boost consumption, a little, but that’s all they do.

    Finally, the RSC proposal provides direct tax relief to strapped families by expanding the child tax credit, reducing taxes on parents’ investment in the next generation of taxpayers. Obama’s expansion of the child tax credit is not nearly as ambitious. Overall, his plan adds up to a lot of forgone revenue without much stimulus to show for it. Senators should push for the tax relief to be better designed.

    $15 billion for business-loss carry-backs
    $145 billion for “Making Work Pay” tax credits
    $83 billion for the earned income credit

    Even as their budgets were growing robustly during the Bush administration, many federal agencies couldn’t find the money to keep up with repairs—at least that’s the conclusion one is forced to draw from looking at the stimulus bill. Apparently the entire capital is a shambles. Congress has already removed $200 million to fix up the National Mall after word of that provision leaked out and attracted scorn. But one fixture of the mall—the Smithsonian—dodged the ax: It’s slated to receive $150 million for renovations.

    The stimulus package is packed with approximately $7 billion worth of federal building projects, including $34 million to fix up the Commerce Department, $500 million for improvements to National Institutes of Health facilities, and $44 million for repairs at the Department of Agriculture. The Agriculture Department would also get $350 million for new computers—the better to calculate all the new farm subsidies in the bill (see “Pure pork” below).

    One theme in this bill is superfluous spending items coated with green sugar to make them more palatable. Both NASA and NOAA come in for appropriations that properly belong in the regular budget, but this spending apparently qualifies for the stimulus bill because part of the money from each allocation is reserved for climate-change research. For instance, the bill grants NASA $450 million, but it states that the agency must spend at least $200 million on “climate-research missions,” which raises the question: Is there global warming in space?

    The bottom line is that there is a way to fund government agencies, and that is the federal budget, not an “emergency” stimulus package. As Riedl puts it, “Amount allocated to the Census Bureau? $1 billion. Jobs created? None.”

    $150 million for the Smithsonian
    $34 million to renovate the Department of Commerce headquarters
    $500 million for improvement projects for National Institutes of Health facilities
    $44 million for repairs to Department of Agriculture headquarters
    $350 million for Agriculture Department computers
    $88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building
    $448 million for constructing a new Homeland Security Department headquarters
    $600 million to convert the federal auto fleet to hybrids
    $450 million for NASA (carve-out for “climate-research missions”)
    $600 million for NOAA (carve-out for “climate modeling”)
    $1 billion for the Census Bureau

    A big chunk of the stimulus package is designed not to create wealth but to spread it around. It contains $89 billion in Medicaid extensions and $36 billion in expanded unemployment benefits—and this is in addition to the state-budget bailout (see “Rewarding state irresponsibility” below).

    The Medicaid extension is structured as a temporary increase in the federal match, but make no mistake: Like many spending increases in the stimulus package, this one has a good chance of becoming permanent. As for extending unemployment benefits through the downturn, it might be a good idea for other reasons, but it wouldn’t stimulate economic growth: It would provide an incentive for job-seekers to delay reentry into the workforce.

    $89 billion for Medicaid
    $30 billion for COBRA insurance extension
    $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits
    $20 billion for food stamps

    The problem with trying to spend $1 trillion quickly is that you end up wasting a lot of it. Take, for instance, the proposed $4.5 billion addition to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers budget. Not only does this effectively double the Corps’ budget overnight, but it adds to the Corps’ $3.2 billion unobligated balance—money that has been appropriated, but that the Corps has not yet figured out how to spend. Keep in mind, this is an agency that is often criticized for wasting taxpayers’ money. “They cannot spend that money wisely,” says Steve Ellis of Taxpayers for Common Sense. “I don’t even think they can spend that much money unwisely.”

    Speaking of spending money unwisely, the stimulus bill adds another $850 million for Amtrak, the railroad that can’t turn a profit. There’s also $1.7 billion for “critical deferred maintenance needs” in the National Park System, and $55 million for the preservation of historic landmarks. Also, the U.S. Coast Guard needs $87 million for a polar icebreaking ship—maybe global warming isn’t working fast enough.

    It should come as no surprise that rural communities—those parts of the nation that were hardest hit by rampant real-estate speculation and the collapse of the investment-banking industry—are in dire need of an additional $7.6 billion for “advancement programs.” Congress passed a $300 billion farm bill last year, but apparently that wasn’t enough. This bill provides additional subsidies for farmers, including $150 million for producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish.

    $4.5 billion for U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
    $850 million for Amtrak
    $87 million for a polar icebreaking ship
    $1.7 billion for the National Park System
    $55 million for Historic Preservation Fund
    $7.6 billion for “rural community advancement programs”
    $150 million for agricultural-commodity purchases
    $150 million for “producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish”

    Open up the section of the stimulus devoted to renewable energy and what you find is anti-stimulus: billions of dollars allocated to money-losing technologies that have not proven cost-efficient despite decades of government support. “Green energy” is not a new idea, Riedl points out. The government has poured billions into loan-guarantees and subsidies and has even mandated the use of ethanol in gasoline, to no avail. “It is the triumph of hope over experience,” he says, “to think that the next $20 billion will magically transform the economy.”

    Many of the renewable-energy projects in the stimulus bill are duplicative. It sets aside $3.5 billion for energy efficiency and conservation block grants, and $3.4 billion for the State Energy Program. What’s the difference? Well, energy efficiency and conservation block grants “assist eligible entities in implementing energy efficiency and conservation strategies,” while the State Energy Program “provides funding to states to design and carry out their own energy efficiency and renewable energy programs.”

    While some programs would spend lavishly on technologies that are proven failures, others would spend too little to make a difference. The stimulus would spend $4.5 billion to modernize the nation’s electricity grid. But as Robert Samuelson has pointed out, “An industry study in 2004—surely outdated—put the price tag of modernizing the grid at $165 billion.” Most important, the stimulus bill is not the place to make these changes. There is a regular authorization process for energy spending; Obama is just trying to take a shortcut around it.

    $2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research)
    $2 billion for a “clean coal” power plant in Illinois
    $6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program
    $3.5 billion for energy-efficiency and conservation block grants
    $3.4 billion for the State Energy Program
    $200 million for state and local electric-transport projects
    $300 million for energy-efficient-appliance rebate programs
    $400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
    $1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries
    $1.5 billion for green-technology loan guarantees
    $8 billion for innovative-technology loan-guarantee program
    $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects
    $4.5 billion for electricity grid

  8. 8 A 1 cycles Feb 13th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    the problem with all of you looking for a lobbyist or a voice is we cant ever agree on anything..we are motorcyclist in the purest sense..individuals..loners..i just dont think it could be done

  9. 9 Fred Feb 13th, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    A-1 Cycles. You are correct. We are individuals. BUT, we should all be able to agree on something, to start. List your top 5 items that will be an advantage to you, and the next guy list his top ten, and so on. I bet after we see these “thousands” of “I want this”, we all agree on at least THREE items. It would at least be a start. My top ten:
    1. Noise levels to stay at current laws
    2. Emission levels agreement for bikes, not follow California standards(which I feel we will all be following none to soon)
    3. Lower Corporate tax rates in line with other countrys
    4. Investigate insurance rates on motorcycle businesses
    5. Get our sweethearts to … (oops, can’t write that down here!!!)

  10. 10 Nicker Feb 13th, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    Nothing wrong with sending a lobbyist to DC. The HA did it for a few years.
    The issue is what are they gonna lobby for……..???

    Implementing National Socialism (AKA the Stimulus package) fixs nothing……..

    Send this to every Senator in DC:

    NO on this Stimulus bill:

    Government spending does not create incentives for labor, innovation and investment. Instead of spending $1 trillion in Washington, let Washington forgive $1 trillion in tax revenues to create incentives for millions of individuals and firms to get the economy going again, one dollar at a time.

    How could anyone really know what is in a 1000 pages of legislation written after midnight.

    The Constitution was written by people who feared exactly the type of government being instituted by this stimulus bill.

    As a legal immigrant and naturalized citizen with first hand experience of European Socialism, let me assure you that what the stimulus bill proposes is not the solution.

    Please vote NO.


  11. 11 John Feb 13th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    El Mirage is the answer.

  12. 12 Bobfather Feb 14th, 2009 at 2:11 am

    Just a quick reply to we’re all individuals. That’s true, we all have our own ideas and agendas and all want to do our own thing. The key here is to be able to change with the times and the times they are a changin’. It’s time to set aside some of those individual tendencies for the betterment of our industry and band together. Ya know at one time the same thing could be said about the hot rodders and probably could still be said in some instances. They got smart and stood together in defense of their way of life and earning a living. Time for the motorcycle community to do the same or as the saying goes, united we stand, divided we fall.

  13. 13 Rogue Feb 14th, 2009 at 8:24 am

    I was at the meeting in “Cincy” and will be working with Keith Ball and others to try and make some thing work with SEMA.
    Hopefully you will be interested in this as well.
    I would suggest to look at it and if you like what you see Join. Become part of the solution!
    Look at this as another group working together to better things for motorcyclist.
    It most likely will not make everyone happy But then again nothing comes to mind that does, so at least take a look at it as another tool.

  14. 14 Mike Kiwi Tomas, Kiwi Indian M/C Co Feb 14th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    I’ve been in America for almost 27 years and it has amazed me that the m/c manufacturers and industry have never played what I feel is their trump card, fuel efficiency and an efficient means of transportation. For some reason it’s considered recreation in the US. I never owned a 4 wheel vehicle until I was 28 (which was only my secondary vehicle) and all my means of transportation whether in New Zealand, Australia, Canada or US was always upon 2 wheels. I still ride my old Indians daily and they pull in 40 mpg.
    I too was at Keith Ball’s SEMA meeting at Cinci and feel it is of prime importance for us to have a voice with horsepower on a combined front. Keith has already formed associations with other existing lobbying groups so combining forces for us, the people I feel this time around we have our best shot yet. I feel Keith is the right man for the job and we have a golden opportunity to finally have a voice, WE THE PEOPLE.

  15. 15 rodent Feb 14th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    Congress included VIAGRA in the stimulus plan because they’re a bunch of dicks

  16. 16 Bobby Feb 14th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Geez, Sam. If you’re so smart, why would you waste all this space on CH’s Motorcycle industry blog to further your tired old republican talking points? Your party had 8 years, and it’s fucking OVER. Nobody is surprised that our Country is taking a huge swing to the left. We all new it would happen. Hell, we knew 4 years ago that it would happen. We just thought that it would be Clinton leading the charge and not Obama. So it’s going to happen, and nobody -NOBODY but you and Rush Limbaugh give a crap about anything conservatives say and think. The same talking head blowhards that defended every decision the Bush whitehouse made are now bitching, whining, and complaining with unimpressive vigor. Sorry dude, your party lost. Take it like a man. Seriously, back away from FOX television and go take a ride. You really, really need one…

  17. 17 Robert Wolf Feb 14th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Obama for bikers. All bikers for Obama. America has a great President. Relief for all Americans (except rednecks) and the rest of the world. .

  18. 18 Scott Feb 14th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Ouch this hurts… But I’m starting to like pain !!! pass the vaseline with extra sand please.

  19. 19 Sam Feb 14th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    Keep drinking the Kool-Aid with the rest of the Obamabots Bobby!
    Don’t believe everything you read from the Daily KOS.

    Investors Business Daily for the real facts:,to,blame,financial,crisis
    As history shows, lower taxes, not more government, work best:

    • The 1920s: When the income tax was established in 1913, the rate was 7%. But it quickly soared, especially for the rich, and by 1918 the top rate was 77%. Unfortunately, coming out of the war the economy was a mess, with prices falling, unemployment soaring and nominal GDP dropping by more than 15% in just one year.

    From 1921 to 1925, under Presidents Harding and Coolidge, tax rates were slashed to 25%, and GDP rose at an annual rate of 3.4% in the four years after the tax cuts vs. 2% before. All told, GDP swelled more than 50% during the 1920s.

    All this was undone, however, on a bipartisan basis — first by President Hoover, a Republican, then by the Democrat FDR. Hoover boosted the top income tax rate to 63%. Then, FDR took it to 79%, while also doubling the corporate tax to 24%, imposing a Social Security tax of 2% and raising taxes on stocks and dividends, estates, and “excess” profits. Is it any wonder the economy went nowhere in the 1930s?

    • The 1960s: President Kennedy, a Democrat, believed strongly that lower taxes meant higher growth, and he was soon proven right. Before he was assassinated, JFK proposed cutting top tax rates from a punitive 91% to 70%. In 1965, his cuts were enacted under President Johnson by a Democratic Congress.

    Once again, growth took off, along with private investment. Real GNP, which averaged just 2.4% from 1952 to 1960, expanded at 4.5% during the ’60s. The expansion that began in 1961 and ended in 1970 was, at the time, the longest ever.

    • The 1980s: President Reagan took over an economy with a 21% prime interest rate, double-digit unemployment and inflation, slowing productivity and flagging economic growth.

    But he too was a big tax cutter. His 25% across-the-board rate cuts snapped the economy out of its funk, creating the longest peacetime expansion ever at the time. During Reagan’s two terms real GDP growth averaged 3.2% compared with 2.8% in the preceding eight years.

    After stagnating through most of the 1970s, real median family income grew $4,000 under Reagan. Investment boomed, as did the stock market, business creation and innovation. Some 20 million new jobs were created, due to the increased incentives to work, save and invest resulting from lower tax rates.

    We all want our new president to succeed. But to do so, he needs to drop the class-warfare rhetoric on taxes and cut them instead. Like Coolidge. Like Kennedy. Like Reagan.

    Stop Covering Up And Kill The CRA
    By INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, November 28, 2008 4:20 PM PT

    Regulation: The Community Reinvestment Act is to blame for the financial crisis, but it so powerfully serves Democrats’ interests that they’ll do anything to protect it — including revising history.


    Read More: Business & Regulation


    The CRA coerces banks into making loans based on political correctness, and little else, to people who can’t afford them. Enforced like never before by the Clinton administration, the regulation destroyed credit standards across the mortgage industry, created the subprime market, and caused the housing bubble that has now burst and left us with the worst housing and banking crises since the Great Depression.

    The CRA should be abolished, along with the government-sponsored enterprises that fueled the secondary market for subprimes — under pressure from Clinton, who ordered HUD to set quotas for “affirmative action” lending at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    But powerful Democrats in Washington want to protect the act — along with Fannie and Freddie — and spin the subprime scandal as the result of too little regulation, not too much.

    “Repealing or weakening the CRA would be a mistake,” warns Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., who argues that the CRA should be strengthened.

    Dodd, the top recipient of Fannie donations and himself a beneficiary of a sweetheart mortgage brokered by a subprime lender, recently invited one of Clinton’s top enforcers of the CRA to testify.

    “The notion that CRA has caused this problem is a pernicious thought,” said former Comptroller of the Currency Gene Ludwig. “These are not truthful statements. The CRA has helped to create a better and sounder world for finance, not the opposite.”

    Dead wrong. But the mainstream media believe it, and have attacked those, including this paper, who dare to tell the truth about the crisis. Already the debacle has erased $13 trillion in wealth, while putting taxpayers on the hook for up to $8 trillion in bailouts.

    “The latest salvo from conservatives began via a Sept. 15 editorial in Investor’s Business Daily, titled ‘The Real Culprits In This Meltdown,’ ” grumbled a column distributed by Scripps Howard News Service. “Its editorial blamed President Clinton for today’s mess.”

    As we said, Clinton beefed up the CRA and used it to force banks to subsidize poor communities with close to $1 trillion in high-risk loans and other commitments that flouted underwriting rules.

    Yet, somehow, these media-driven myths keep getting in the way of actual facts, such as:

    Fact: The 1977 law was only lightly enforced until Clinton added teeth to it in 1994 and launched an anti-redlining campaign against banks, led by Ludwig, Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros (and later Andrew Cuomo) and Attorney General Janet Reno that lasted into this decade.

    Minority homeownership rates, which had been flat, began a steep rise in 1995, and home prices soon followed, stoked by easier lending. Numerous bank officials complain that they still feel pressured by CRA regulators to make inner-city loans they know are at great risk of defaulting.

    Myth: The CRA could not have led to financial Armageddon, because the overwhelming share of subprime mortgages came from lenders that were not banks and not regulated by the CRA.

    Fact: Nearly 4 in 10 subprime loans between 2004 and 2007 were made by CRA-covered banks such as Washington Mutual and IndyMac. And that doesn’t include loans made by subprime lenders owned by banks, which were in effect covered by the CRA.

    Last year, when the bubble burst, bank subprime loans totaled $142 billion, dwarfing those made by lenders.

    What’s more, the biggest subprime lender, Countrywide, while not subject to the law, still came under federal pressure to make risky loans in minority communities.

    Clinton created a separate department at HUD to police “fair lending” at Fannie and Freddie and also at lenders like Countrywide, which became Fannie’s biggest client. In 1994, Countrywide became the nation’s first mortgage lender to sign with HUD a “Declaration of Fair Lending Principles and Practices.”

    As a result, Countrywide made more loans to minorities than any other lender — and not surprisingly, was one of the first lenders swamped by loan defaults.

    Other lenders felt the heat from Reno’s Justice Department, which prosecuted them for failing to operate enough branches in black neighborhoods. Reno put the entire banking industry on notice about the CRA and her enforcement program.

    Myth: The CRA did not force anyone to do subprime loans or take excessive risks.

    Fact: Subprime loans were the vehicle banks used to satisfy CRA compliance, and Clinton and his regulators encouraged their use. Before Clinton took office, subprimes were virtually unheard of. By the time he left, they made up more than 9% of the market for mortgage originations. Today they’re 20%.

    “It’s instructive to go back to the early stages of the subprime market, which has essentially emerged out of the CRA,” ex-Fed chief Alan Greenspan said in recent testimony on the roots of the crisis.

    Clinton pushed banks to grant mortgages to minorities with poor credit by using “flexible” underwriting standards — or risk being branded racist. Rules were weakened to the point where welfare and unemployment checks were accepted as qualifying income.

    Myth: Greedy investment bankers, who securitized and sold subprime mortgages, drove us to the credit crisis, not government.

    Fact: Clinton’s regulatory policies led to the creation of this new risk on Wall Street. His CRA amendments created the subprime market, and only after he pressured Fannie and Freddie to socialize the risk and guarantee the profit from the subprime loans did Wall Street get involved in a big way.

    The exotic securitizations that have gotten so much of the blame were a symptom, not the cause, of the crisis.

    The architects of the crisis want to divert attention from their own culpability by blaming the markets rather than their own regulations mandating that banks make high-risk loans based on race.

    In fact, regulations had almost everything to do with this mess. And instead of strengthening them to atone for the alleged “sins of capitalism,” we should be abolishing them.

    Two bills in the House would be a good place to start. HR 7264, which has nine co-sponsors, would repeal the CRA. And HR 7094, with 17 co-sponsors, would dissolve Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    During the last severe slump, President Reagan deregulated the economy, saying: “Government is not the solution to the problem; government is the problem.” He’s as right today as he was then.

  20. 20 Ken Sirota Feb 14th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    Sam. You wrote “As history shows, lower taxes not more government, work best”:

    Exactly what Obama just did! To lower taxes is always a government decision.

  21. 21 Nicker Feb 14th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    Say What…???

    “….Obama for bikers. All bikers for Obama. America has a great President…”

    Robert, do you even know what a “Community Activist” is….???
    Dude, this biker wouldn’t give BO the time-o-day (let alone the keys to the kingdom).


  22. 22 Nicker Feb 14th, 2009 at 11:08 pm


    “…lower taxes … Exactly what Obama just did!…”

    Well, not quite…..

    Dude, this is real simple stuff.
    It takes lowering taxes on the productive who grow the economy, (not those who pay little or no taxes to begin with) to correct recessions and depressions.

    Distributing tax rebates to those who never paid in the first place isn’t lowing taxes, it’s called wealth redistribution (see Karl Marx).


  23. 23 Nicker Feb 15th, 2009 at 2:01 am


    “…America has a great President. Relief for all Americans…”

    Well, your “great Pesident” just “Relie[ved]” all us Americans of $20 million to move Hamas directly into the US.

    So, is-zat the type of “Change” you had in mind…… Hmmmmm… ???
    (See below)


    [Federal Register: October 22, 2008 (Volume 73, Number 205)]
    [Presidential Documents]
    [Page 62849]
    From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access []

    Presidential Determination No. 2009-15 of January 27, 2009

    Unexpected Urgent Refugee and Migration Needs Related To Gaza Memorandum for the Secretary of State By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, including section 2(c)(1) of the Migration and Refugee Assistance Act of 1962 (the “Act”), as amended (22 U.S.C. 2601), I hereby determine, pursuant to section 2(c)(1) of the Act, that it is important to the national interest to furnish assistance under the Act in an amount not to exceed $20.3 million from the United States Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance Fund for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international, governmental, and nongovernmental organizations and payment of administrative expenses of Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration of the Department of State, related to humanitarian needs of Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza. You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register. (Presidential Sig.) THE WHITE HOUSE, Washington, January 27, 2009

  24. 24 Jeff Nicklus Feb 16th, 2009 at 3:04 pm


    Thought you guys would appreciate this recap !!

    Let’s Recap–

    1, The American people elect a black president with a total of 42 days
    experience as a U S Senator from the most politically corrupt state in
    America whose governor is ousted from office. The President’s first official
    act is to close Gitmo and make sure terrorists civil rights are not

    2, The U.S. Congress rushes to confirm a black Attorney General, Eric
    Holder, whose law firm we later find out represents seventeen Gitmo

    3, The CIA Boss, Leon Penetta with absolutely no experience, has a daughter
    Linda we find out, that is a true radical anti-American activist who is a
    supporter of all the Anti-American regimes in the western hemisphere.

    4. We got the most corrupt female in America as Secretary of State; bought
    and paid for.

    5. We got a Tax Cheat for Treasury Secretary who files his own taxes.

    6. A Commerce Secretary nominee who withdrew due to corruption charges.

    7. A Tax cheat nominee for Chief Performance Officer who withdrew under

    8. A Labor Secy nominee who withdrew under charges of unethical conduct.

    9. A Secy HHS nominee who withdrew under charges of cheating on his taxes.

    And that’s just the first two weeks. . . but who’s counting.

    America is being run by the modern-day Three Stooges ~ Barrack, Nancy, and
    Harry ~ and they are still trying to define stimulus.

    Stimulus is where the government gives a smidgen of your tax dollars back
    to you making you feel so good about yourself [stimulated] that you want to
    run out to Wal-Mart and buy a new Chinese-made HDTV and go home and watch

    Over & Out,


  25. 25 No Skool Feb 16th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    Nicker & Nicklus, yall talk too much. Support your new President. I had to support President Cheney (for as long as I could). But we finally cut the Bushes and Broke the Cheney. Can’t look back. Too much to fix. So submit your plan and help us all out with your wisdom. Just be brief.

    No Skool

  26. 26 Jeff Nicklus Feb 16th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    Comrade No Skool,

    Support the new President do what? Continue with his plan to institute Western European Socialism in this country? I think NOT.

    Help him with his 750 Billion Dollar Plan to Support his Voter Base …… I think NOT.

    If you will recall back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch, a brothel in Nevada, for tax evasion and as required by law, tried to run it.

    They failed and it closed. Now, we are trusting the economy of our country and 750+ Billion Dollars to a pack of nit-wits who couldn’t make money running a whore house and selling booze.

    If that doesn’t make you nervous, what will??

    Here we go again!

    Over & Out,


  27. 27 Jeff Nicklus Feb 16th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    Comrade No Skool,

    PS: I notice you didn’t challenge the “Report Card” ….. What’s up with that? The truth is always hard to challenge isn’t it?

    Over & Out,


  28. 28 No Skool Feb 16th, 2009 at 6:08 pm


    Report cards are for children. Truth is it was too long a read and I got bored. I got the picture after a coule of lines. But it is betwen the lines that I concentrate most on your writings. I understand how biased you are from others comments and posts. There’s only so much I can listen to from those type of people.

    But again, as always, I ask for YOUR report card, son. You’ve danced around YOUR obligation again. This is YOUR country. These are YOUR rights. You you you. When you get exhausted on that black man President thingie you’re on, try channeling that energy into YOUR plan. If YOUR President fails…so do you. Get that?

    I failed America because of the Bush/Cheney fiasco. I let happen to America. I didn;t vote for them but I still have to take responsiblity. This is MY country and I let it down. Darkest times in American history. Do you want to feel like that or do you want your President to succeed?

    I figure you may be an ok person. But you need some direction. Can a person be De-brainwashed?

    Is that what D-TV is? Ha.

    No Skool

  29. 29 Ken Sirota Feb 16th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Jeff. You are as dumb as Rush Limbaugh, the leader of the republican party. You want the President to fail!?! Shame on you. What do you have to propose to save America? Nothing. The 1st good step was to get rid of Bush/Chesney. If we would list the illegal/stupid things done and said by Bush/Chesney Cyril’s server would overheat and shut down. Both should feel lucky that Obama has apparently decided not to pursue prosecurion against both of them for illegal declaration of war, war crimes, illegal torture, corruption, etc. And don’t tell me that the country was safe under Bush. 9/11 happened under Bush. Remember?.You should leave this country if you don’t support it. Guantanamo has a vacant room ready for you.

  30. 30 No Skool Feb 16th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    Do you know what happens when you have to lay off hookers at a brothel? You have to run it yourself. Got that picture in your mind? You have to run it BY HAND. Ha. Got that picture in your mind?

    Your research is amazing. Biased but amazing. Must take a lot of your time. So while you concentarte on a bankrupted brothel in Nevada, how aout the Texas Rangers and the whole USA? Were they run right? I know…it’s was them Democrats in Congress. I cn hear it now.

    The mission was accomplished. The defense contractors and oil peeps got rich, the true state of the economy was covered up, all of our important infrastructures are suffering and now you will pay for many years…regardless of who’s in office. But you have a black man to blame. In reality, it’s you and me to blame. We let America down.

    I scratch my head. No more politics on CH’s blog for me unless directly related to scooters.


  31. 31 Nicker Feb 16th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    No Sko……….

    Dude do you just suffer from an attention deficite disorder…???

    “…Nicker & Nicklus, yall talk too much….. .So submit your plan…”

    If ya had have a brain you’d understand that “our plan” is the policies that have ALWAYS
    basiled us out of bad economic times…… Tax cuts and policies that let business do what it has always done… creat jobs and wealth.

    “…and now you will pay for many years…”

    What? You’ve figured a way to exclude yourself….???
    Last time i looked at the “Stimulus” were all going under the Socialist Yoke together.
    (unless you happen to be a politician).

    Ever heard the term “Usefull Idiot”……… ???

    Where do these people come from…….. 🙁


  32. 32 Jeff Nicklus Feb 17th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    No Skool, Ken & Fellow Idiots,

    You want my plan? OK here is what I would do if I were in charge ….

    1: ALL foreign aid would be immediately terminated! No more aid to anyone or country outside of the United States of America.

    2: All military forces would be immediately returned to American soil and placed on Border Patrol. No longer will The United States of America be known as the Worlds 911. Let Europe and the rest of the world rely on The United Nations that they love so much. We are done protecting the world, it is time we look out for our own. FYI: Anyone caught entering the United States of America illegally would be shot on the spot.

    3: All welfare programs would be discontinued for anyone who is physically able to work. I don’t consider having 8 kids being physically unable to work either. Everyone would be employed doing something even if that job was to clean up the gettos.

    4: Fathers would be held responsible for the children they brought into this world. If these people cannot or will not pay their child support payments then they should be forced to work at a second job with all that money earned, on the second job, going toward the support of their children.

    5. I would impose a moratorium on ANY Federal Tax. This tax “CUT” would be all the stimulus this country would require. If the Government can afford to hand out $750 Billion dollars of our money then they can afford to live for a few years without any form of income derived from our Tax Dollars.

    6. All Elected Officials of the Federal or Local Government(s) would have a pay cut. These officials should earn no more than the National Average Income. Public Service should be voluntary … not a road to riches. Further, term limits should be imposed on all elected officials ….. not that the term limits would be necessary if their elected office was not a road to riches any longer.

    7: Any elected official caught abusing his/her office or stealing from the public trust would be placed in prison for a minimum of 20 years without parole. A second offense would result in a death penalty with that penalty being carried out within 10 days of conviction.

    8: NO BAIL OUTS! Any company, corporation or public trust that cannot operate as a profitable business would be allowed to file one (1) Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. This would allow the company to do away with these obscene union contracts and reorganize the company. Should any member of “Management” of the bankrupt company be found to be guilty of any fraudulent activity during their tenure as official of the Company, well …. then please see number 7 above.

    9: I would allow a 120 grace period for any illegal alien to apply for citizenship to the United States of America. After that time period we will track you down and throw your ass out of the country along with any of your children who may have been born on our soil. If you return illegally please see number 2 above.

    10. The national language of The United States of America is ENGLISH …. Learn to speak it or go home.

    OK, that would about do it for my first 100 days in office. After that I would get serious about getting this country back on track.

    FYI: Ruch is a liberal compared to me!

    Over & Out,


  33. 33 Jeff Nicklus Feb 17th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    that should be ” allow a 120 day grace period”

    Over & Out,


  34. 34 Fred Feb 17th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    I still wonder why with collapsing markets. foreclosures, business bailouts, that our Congress and President don’t volunteer a pay cut for themselves, or work for 1 dollar a year until we come out of this crisis as a GOOD FAITH gesture in BELIEVING in our Leaders choice for the next 4 years.
    I guess when you are used to making a good paycheck, its not as easy giving it up for a cause. Bailout proof job, who’d a thought!!

  35. 35 Jeff Nicklus Feb 17th, 2009 at 6:37 pm


    It is my understanding that there is a $93,000.00 pay INCREASE for each member of Congress in this Stimulus Bill. It is stimulating their pockets …. As usual!

    Over & Out,


  36. 36 Rick Feb 17th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    Jeff, your statement is false. Coming from Rush Limbaugh!

    Your plan is not republican, but leaning on the democrat side.

    Imagine McCain President!?!? The end of America. Do you know how many top executives, business owners would have left the country. Including well known successful people in the motorcycle industry. If you would be an insider you would know. But you don’t know as much as what you think.

    You are better off support Obama and stop thinking that Texas is another planet.

  37. 37 Jeff Nicklus Feb 17th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    What is a false statement ????

    Over & Out,


  38. 38 Jeff Nicklus Feb 17th, 2009 at 9:24 pm


    Actually the statement about the Pay Increase came from ABC World News Tonight w/ Charles Gibson last night. I haven’t listened to Rush in weeks. I know one thing for sure …. Rush scares the crap out of you lib’s! I love it.

    Also if you believe anything I had to say even remotely resembled Democratic view points then you need to go back and get another dose of your college instructor’s love …. Because you are lost, my man.

    Further, Osama Obama is only going to be reasonably effective until we boot the socialist bastards out of the Congress two years from now … that should neuter Obama at that point. Remember ONLY 51% of Americans voted for him. To listen to you lib’s you would think he won with 99% of the vote ….. wise up … he just squeaked by!

    Over & Out,


  39. 39 Nicker Feb 18th, 2009 at 12:46 am


    When if the world economy taks into another depression, the social unrest in this country will split that 51% of BO supporters.

    The inner city part (that followed him as an activist) will burn itself out.
    The Hollywood part will run for the hills and the rest will have to come to grips with reality.

    And that reality is this, country works around a free, competitive market where people are motivated by their won self interest. You remove that part of the equation and the whole thing collapses.

    Why do you thing LBJ’s (pronounced El-B.J.) Great Society was such a fucking disaster….???

    Look, le-me explain something very simple to you. The best you can expect from Humanity is “Enlightened Self Interest.”
    The worst you can expect is that the unwashed mass of useful-idiot underachievers become agitated by the class envy pitching activists to the point where they vote themselves an “unearned share of the national treasure.”

    If we were all “created equal” we would all be fucking Einsteins.
    Look around ya….. In case you hadn’t noticed….. we’re not.
    The cold hard facts of life are this….. there ain’t no “level playing field.”
    There are winners and there are losers (children once learned that by playing dodge-ball).
    Bottom line:
    Not everyone can achieve the same standard of living.
    And no amount of BO (or anyone elses) legislation is ever gonna change that reality.

    -BTW- Shooting the messinger won’t change a thing.

  40. 40 No Skool Feb 18th, 2009 at 2:31 am

    Finally, a plan. I promise not to post again after this but I will reply.

    Isolationism: I agree with some aspects of this but only to an extent. We do need to develop & spend more within the US but understand that the pollution may turn your head into a blister and you may not have drinking water. That’s what’s happening where we get our stuff now. Understand that they work…we consume. Consumption is NOT a natural resource. To expect a total draw down as it was put is not possible anymore. We are not the same world as it was when my Dad was a child. Even then, there were serious threats to freedom. What I will agree is that we need to keep my heads out of other peple’s business. Parts of the middle-East are pissed vecause we try to ram Jesus Christ down their thorats and they don’t believe in him. The Crusaders cut off heads everywhere they went in the name of what is “right”. They resent our gluttoneous, fat ways and way of life. Quit messing with their neighborhood and they will be less likely to come into ours. A serious protectismism appraoch to immigration is right. Our borders shouldn’t be closed but it should be damned hard to get in. The days following 911, we couldn’t fly but members of Osama’s family went the only ones in the air…leaving the US.

    Source of the Stimulus: Immediately, the money is not ours that is being spent. It is China’s. They are loaning to us because we consume so much of their stuff. If we stop consuming they will suffer. Either way, they win. Look at who owns Hawaii. The stimuls money is not a fix. It is only a buffer at best to cushion (not stop) the fall. You have two immediate choices….starve and fight to keep the boogers out of your house… or borrow from the Chinese. I say, let them buy worthless property (we are bankrupt) and we’ll buy it back later giving them a slight profit. I don;t think you have enuff bullets.

    Pay: A company can not function wthout workers and workers can not function without a company. So BOTH have to be dealt with at the same time. Not just tax cuts for companies so they can hire people. That’s one sided and won;t work by itself. Freezes on pay ( for EVERYONE) is appropriate. Cutting unnecssary budgets and scrutinizing expenses…looks like these are coming to light. The ancient Orientals knew about BALANCE. Not too much of one or the other. Oherwise things get out of hand. I think statistcs show that the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer. The split is not working towards a better balance. It is so far out of wack that some on the high end are pannicking. I can even hear it in the written word. Compromise is in order. Otherwise you will lose it all. And you may have much further to fall than some. Better think in different terms.

    Equality: Correct. Not all are born the same. Not all make use of what they have been given. But, like Socialism and Communism, you confuse two different things. Equality to me is OPPURTUNITY. If you think all people have the same oppurtunities, I won;t even go on. It is hard to understand unless you have been in other’s shoes. But if our nation had equal opporrtunitites for all, then there will still be some that have more than others just because they work hard. The ones who are most afriad are the nes who can’t make it by woring hard. Otherwise you will benefit. But today in Houston, a cunt stole billions from regular people. A teacher who had Enron stock lost her whole life’s savings in one day and she was old and alone. Nawh…we got a distinct imbalance to correct. But we shouldn’t go to extremes. I’m sorry, no one deserves a million dollar bonus and Exxon doesn;t deserve to rip the entire US off while we try to get in check.

    Taxes: Flat tax. No writeoffs. It is insane to think we can operate a government when we need it the most with a zero budget. Short-sided thinking.

    Socialism” Don;t be scared. Your public education system has been socialistic for a long time. Mexico has one gas station and I think the price is the same at each pump. No, a poorly run government can not be expected to handle anything right. That’s why you need someone who thinks differently than in the past. Our real hope is to improve the government. But we are busy fighting some wildfire’s and have no money for a new firetruck. That’s why it will take a couple years of hard work before O’bama can start doing that. I believe he will. But a socialistic model of energy, education, military, heath care that is WELL MANAGED is the way it must go. See ethics.

    Ethics: The reason why a lobbyist can openly offer $100 bills on the Senate floor is because they have become our government. Several closed door sessions with energy companies and a VP and we couldn’t hear what was said. Hmmm. Then our ebergy gets de-regulated and goes out of sight. Hmmm. And it robably happens with all admisitrations. Get rid of lobbying as it is out of control and controlling too much. As you said, hold goverenment officals to the highest standards and make their jobs respectable. And hang them if they don;t represent us. They are just middlemen. We are the people. All I want is an FACILTATOR. They don;t have an opinion other than that of their constituents. And right now, I think all the branches (less Judicial) aren’t seeing things quite your way. I am sorry. Ethics, though is important and we agree there.

    Who really runs things and who should you be mad at: Insurance companies, oil companies, energy, parmaceuticals (sp), and I am sure you can think of others actually run things. As closely tied into ethics, business can be big but business should never have any more say with our government than you or I. Greed, ethics, morality. Even the churches aren’t cutting it. My Dad of few words said it right. “Right is right if nobody does it…and wrong is wrong if everybody does it.” To me, this is really the source of it all but you can not legislate morality.

    Strength of the US: You will not help and will do great harm by not supporting your Chief. Marines know that. Even if they don;t like O’bama, they will follow his leadership. Don’t bash your president. It’s un-American. You are hurting yourself and the rest of us. You separate people and we don;t need that these days.

    In general: We are pigs. We eat too much, we buy too many motorcycles, our kids can’t do anything without some I-pod. We drink too much, and cuss too much. We fight amongst ourselves and kill over a pair of sneakers cuz we think winning the Daytona 500 is something. We burn a huge hole in the ozone every time the stupid space shuttle goes up to put another AT&T sattelite in orbit while the planet cooks. I will have two scooters for the first time in my life this year. One is factory and the other quite a chunk of change. The high isn;t near as good as that first one or the ones that came harder. So I got some pig in me too and I need to get back to reality. You have a further journey than I.

    The difference between me and you is that you perpetuate what is bad about us and, if I can make some important changes, I represent (I hope) what can be. The “bad times” are actually the best. We learn what is important and ditch the crud. The problem is, when we get heathier, we forget and pig out again. That’s what I hope to do differently this go around. I want to remember.

    Amen. Over and out, good riddence, adios. I am through and you can turn blue. Thanks for at least a vague attempt at a plan.

    No Skool

  41. 41 Vlad Feb 18th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Putin Warns US Democrats Against Socialism
    “We must not revert to isolationism and unrestrained economic egotism… Excessive intervention in economic activity and blind faith in the state’s omnipotence is another possible mistake. True, the state’s increased role in times of crisis is a natural reaction to market setbacks. Instead of streamlining market mechanisms, some are tempted to expand state economic intervention to the greatest possible extent… In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state’s role absolute. In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated.”

    Russian Prime Minister Vladamir Putin
    Opening ceremony of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland
    January 28, 2009
    This is really pathetic.
    Even Russian President Vlad Putin is warning the US against socialism:

    You know things are out of control when Communist China is lecturing democrats on protectionism and now the former head of the KGB is lecturing US democrats against socialism.

    Russian Prime Minister Vladamir Putin has said the US should take a lesson from the pages of Russian history and not exercise “excessive intervention in economic activity and blind faith in the state’s omnipotence”.

    “In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state’s role absolute,” Putin said during a speech at the opening ceremony of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated.”

    Sounding more like Barry Goldwater than the former head of the KGB, Putin said, “Nor should we turn a blind eye to the fact that the spirit of free enterprise, includi ng the principle of personal responsibility of businesspeople, investors, and shareholders for their decisions, is being eroded in the last few months. There is no reason to believe that we can achieve better results by shifting responsibility onto the state.”

    Putin also cautioned the US against using military Keynesianism to lift its economy out of recession, saying, “in the longer run, militarization won’t solve the problem but will rather quell it temporarily. What it will do is squeeze huge financial and other resources from the economy instead of finding better and wiser uses for them.” Putin’s comments come in sharp contrast to Russia’s own military buildup and expansion.
    Unfortunately, the Democrats did not listen.

    UPDATE: The Chinese communist government issued another warning to Democrats today– “Increased borrowing by the United States to fund its massive stimulus package could cause the depreciation of U.S. dollar-denominated assets.”

  42. 42 Nicker Feb 18th, 2009 at 10:26 pm


    Ya gotta remember that History isn’t high on the list of things to which the average “Born American” pays much attention.

    Hell, only half of em even bother to vote.
    And the young ones think “from each his ability to each his need” comes from our Constitution.

    Some time ago one of the misguided on this blog called me “History Boy” thinking it was some form of put-down….. 🙂

    Turns out no one values freedom more than those of us who came to this country to become Americans. And it take a good understanding of history appreciate what America offers.


  43. 43 Vlad Feb 19th, 2009 at 10:44 am

    Yes Nicker,
    I’m often shocked by how little the young people today know of American History. Most of them think America is a Democracy instead of a Republic. I was debating socialism vs capitalism with a woman once and she responded by saying capitalism doesn’t solve all our problems. I replied it wasn’t government’s job to solve “all” problems. Anyone expecting the government to solve all their problems is going to be very dissappointed. These Socialists believe that your life must be guided from birth to death by the government. Socialism does not encourage self reliance, responsibility or personal wealth. In fact, shirking responsibility is accepted. Socialism does not reward anyone for working hard because everyone receives the same reward. The best worker and the slacker are rewarded the same. Socialism equalizes misery and poverty while productivity and efficiency suffer.
    We have a generation of people expecting the government to solve all their problems & think they are entitled to be bailed out every time they make a wrong decision. Life is hard, deal with it. You don’t make a poor person richer by making a rich person poorer. Instead of dragging others down, try to pull yourself up.

  44. 44 No Skool Feb 19th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    I agree with the points about Socialism and history. Also, the idea that America does not have a true Democracy. But let us be careful to understand that we do not hav to choose an all-or-nothing approach. We can design what we want (if wew can getpast the misconceptions). Just me, and possibly only me, thinks a partial Socialistic approach to the utmost important infrastructures is necessary. Thes would be only the most life-sustaining ones such as education, health, military, food, water and others I pointed out before. Communist China has a free enterprise system. It was working well until the US stop buying the junk.

    The key point is balance. Use what is good from one system, part from another, and throw the rest away. This is why I am so concerned about labeling and following a given party. It restricts us and molds us to much. Anyone attaching themselves to a given party (ANY party) so much is taling the bitter with the sweet. I’d prefer to take what is good about Democrats and Republicans and throw the rest in the garbage. But, unfortunately, in the US, we saw what happens when someone tries to do that when Nadar wasn’t allowed to debate or even attend a debate even though he had a ticket to observe. The hard-nosed Dems and Reps kept him out. Not a pretty model of a Democracy.

    Putin has some good points to that exerpt. Putin also has his own agenda. China certianly does. Let’s see how the stimulus money is spent. We’ll eventually recover. I am just concerned about what we will learn and remember (i.e. History). I am also hopeful we can create a new government along the way. But maybe some like what they have een in the past.

    Republicans seem to be revamping because they lost power they had. Democrats see themselves as a new face of goevernment. In both cases, the theme is the same…CHANGE. Boy, do we need it.

    No Skool

  45. 45 Roid Feb 19th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    No Skool, that name is fitting. Go sit in a corner and shut up, you are too stupid to consume oxygen!

    Jeff Nicklus – I love your plan except it doesn’t go far enough!

    You should add that all Prisons in America shall become financially self sufficient by the year 2010, anyone convicted of rape (on anyone other than on his fellow prisoners) should be surgically castrated with a dull knife by the family of the victim, any person convicted of being a pedophile (AKA: Tree Jumpers) should be executed immediately upon conviction (this would not apply in Arkansas, Tennessee or W. Virginia), baby killers should be “gutted” in a public place and allowed to suffer until death occurs, any person convicted of selling drugs will be publically executed within 10 days (this will allow time for people to gather and get the tail gate party’s organized)of the conviction, when sentenced to life in prison should actually mean 10 days from now we are going to shoot your ass and your life sentence is complete. That should about do it!

  46. 46 Nicker Feb 20th, 2009 at 2:40 am

    No Skool….

    Remember Marx’s “Useful Idiots” term….???

    “…we do not hav to choose an all-or-nothing approach. We can design what we want …”
    “… I’d prefer to take what is good about Democrats and Republicans and throw the rest in the garbage…”
    “… a partial Socialistic approach to the utmost …”

    Dude, stop drinking that cool aid.

    “…when Nadar wasn’t allowed to debate …”

    Are we talki-n about the same “skin-flute-engineer” that forced GM to dump the Corvare…???
    (Just when the country needed a good small economy car)
    Now there’s a guy we need as President…. Sort-a like CA needs Jerry Brown as Governor.

    Skool, trying to engineer Utopia is about as useless an exercise as trying to demonstrate Perpetual Motion.
    It’s an exercise in futility.
    Reality is a cruel task master.
    You go get some miles under your belt and we’ll talk again.


  47. 47 No Skool Feb 20th, 2009 at 3:24 am

    Nadar: not the person fool…the idea. Yall want to shut anyone up who has a different idea. Keep trying and we’ll keep fighting you.

    Mileage: You ain;t seen my miles, I got more experiience in my first 50 that you will ever have I suspect.

    Reality. No comment worth airing.

    Sit in a corner. Not likely.

    Shut up. Good advice. Better things await.

    So, CH, the stimulus plan includes scooters too. Good news. Now if they have one with a bigger belt…ha. O’bama taking care of anothet thing Bush babies didn;t. Sorry…I won;t be a-reading your reply. Ha.

    No Skool, Ol Skool, Ya should’ve gone to skool.

  48. 48 Nicker Feb 20th, 2009 at 3:26 am

    Sorry Skool… i missed your earlier post.

    “…middle-East are pissed vecause we try to ram Jesus Christ down their thorats and they don’t believe in him….”

    No, Mohammad based Islam on Christianity. Only his idea was that Christianity didn’t go far enough down the old testament road (eye for an eye….etc.).

    “… They resent our gluttoneous, fat ways and way of life. Quit messing with their neighborhood and they will be less likely to come into ours.

    No, what they resent is the loss of the Ottoman Empire, which started to decline after the Nepolianic Wars. WW-I finished em-off. They ruled the roost for 900 years, however when the British decided to switch their fleet from coal to oil that’s when they really lost control.

    But no one cares to remember that for those 900 years they were brutal….
    I have a reading list if your interested.

    “… A serious protectismism appraoch to immigration…”

    Now there we agree.
    The US was always rather picky as to who go in.
    I had to pass a fairly restrictive physical, even in 1955.
    But the Progressive Liberals managed to implement an unprecidented “open door policy.”
    Now any “Jack-me-hoff” can waltz in the door and we get 9/11.

    “… a flat tax…”

    Damned right!

    “… Your public education system has been socialistic …”

    No, it’s not “Socialistic” it’s “Autocratic”…..
    But ever since Dewey and the Progressive Liberals who took it over, it has been teaching Socialism. When i got here in 55 they were pumping our heas full of the UN. Just like they are pumping the children full of man made global warming today.

    “… Socialism” Don;t be scared…”

    You must be joking. I’m petrified.!!!!
    This is exactly the crap i left Europe to escape.
    What part of….. SOCIALISM DOESN’T FUCKING WORK…. don’t you understand!!!

    Dude, you really need to do more (balanced) reading.


  49. 49 Jeff Nicklus Feb 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    The socialists are coming, the socialists are coming …..

    Here they come as promised … back again with another new twist for GUN CONTROL in these United States. This is one issue I hope you take to heart rather than simply watch as it goes down on FOX News. If they succeed, this Nation is on its way to being lost forever.

    • You will have to carry a photo ID firearms license.
    • A training class is required to be licensed.
    • Disclosure of your storage method is required for license.
    • A thumb print is required for license.
    • Every sale recorded by the federal government.
    • If you move, and don’t tell the Attorney General within 60 days, you are a criminal.
    • If a firearm is stolen and you don’t report it, you are a criminal.
    • There will be no grand-fathered firearms. If you do not obtain a license and report every firearm you currently own, you are a criminal.
    • There will be a license fee and a fee for the “services” provided at purchase time.
    • Licenses must be renewed every 5 years.

    We are losing our freedoms and we must defeat this Bill before it gets spun by Obama as an other “emergency” .

    Over & Out,


  50. 50 Mike Greenwald Feb 21st, 2009 at 2:00 am

    Here is the documentation of what the stimulus is and what it is not.

    It is a long read. It is taxation and that is always a long read.

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Cyril Huze