About Lorenzo Cycles


Chad Greulach, CEO of Lorenzo Cycles read your comments in my Blog about the launch of the new company and the association of Lorenzo Lamas with Eddie Trotta. He sent me the following statement

“On behalf of Lorenzo Cycles…In 2002, I produced/packaged “American Chopper” for Discovery Channel as an East Coast answer to what Jesse was doing on the west coast. I’ve kept my foot in the industry and developed my relationships since. After 6 months with Gene Simmons, producing the first season of his series on A&E, it was only a matter of time til the pieces lined up.

Lorenzo Lamas has been a “garage builder” (like many of you) and putting miles on bikes for 30 years. With a genuine love for the ride and craftsmanship of custom motorcycles, Lorenzo and I committed early this year to learning from the failures of those before us and to committing our time and resources to introducing something new and exciting to an industry that’s flat at best. We both knew that, though Lorenzo knows and loves bikes, he obviously wasn’t going to be the one shaping the metal! I’d worked with Ralph Randolph for more than 5 years, as a friend, to help him build his brand. 7 years after launching OCC, I put Lorenzo and Ralph together.

We’ve been fortunate to have the support of individuals and companies who believe in the vision of Lorenzo Cycles. We’re committed to building our company right. After 4 months of build time, our bikes not being on the ground in Sturgis was unacceptable and inconsistent with our brand image and goals. Our decision to replace Ralph Randolph with Eddie Trotta was in no way a statement against Ralph or his bikes. For the team at Lorenzo Cycles, it was just a matter of taking care of business.

We understand that those in our community who don’t know Lorenzo or understand his genuine passion for riding might see Lorenzo Cycles as another “rock star” attempt, but I’m here to tell you, that’s not what we’ve got on the forecast. Over the next months and years, we’ll introduce new bikes, parts, products, rides and a community that will take riders back to the fundamental core and spirit of custom motorcycles and a real sense of freedom and expression.

Lorenzo, as you’ll see over time, is the real deal. We all understand the skepticism by some of you, based on other “celebrity efforts”, and know that it’s our challenge to prove ourselves to those who might cast doubt. Some we’ll win over. Others we wont. We’ll start by having our first Eddie Trotta bikes on the ground in Daytona and continue by riding 1000’s of miles with our friends for charity throughout 2010 and always introducing unique products to market.

Thanks to our early supporters (Rod Woodruff, John Paul DeJoria, John Detrick, Brenda Fox, Marjoe Gortner, Oakley, Ariat, etc.) and to those of you who still don’t get it…stay tuned. It’ll all make sense to you in about a year” Chad Greulach, Lorenzo Cycles.


49 Responses to “About Lorenzo Cycles”

  1. 1 Jim C Aug 21st, 2009 at 11:54 am

    Well,good luck to them. I have not heard of Chad and I thought it was Piligan productions that put American Chopper together but I don’t claim to know it all so maybe I learned something today. Whenever I hear people talk about innovation,sense of value,ect,well I am a little skeptical. Hopefully,it is not just some lip service as it is hard to be innovative in todays marketplace. I can’t imagine what they could bring to the table that hasn’t alrady been brought. Especially something that is rideable and not just different for the sake of being innovative. Just my .02

  2. 2 Chad Greulach Aug 21st, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Jim C.-

    First. You’re right about Piligian being associated with American Chopper. From March 2002-September 2002, I ran Pilgrim Films & Television. Piligian owns Pilgrim.

    I’ll let Paul Senior fill you in on the details of how American Chopper went down if he ever wants to.

    On your skepticism, I think you’re right to feel the way you do. What Jesse was doing in 2001 was innovative. The reason American Chopper hit like it did in 2002-2003 is because the characters were relateable. It wasn’t the bikes that sold the shows…it was Paul Sr. and Paulie.

    What we’re doing with Lorenzo and Eddie is something completely different. It’s flipping the OCC model on its head and using established icons to design and introduce truly unique Products they think are cool. And I’m not talking about “freak-show” unique. I’m talking about rideable, well-engineered, “I gotta have it!” unique.

    Lorenzo and Eddie are both successful guys. They’re committed to launching this company because they love its spirit and they believe in the product. That’s the way it is.

    Keep an eye on us, Jim C. Thanks.

  3. 3 jspfc Aug 21st, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    So with all this being said, is this inspiration behind a new television series? I would say based on other comments about OCC on this blog, you may not be very well liked around here.

    And I would have to call bs on your last statement about how they “love the spirit of the company”. Hell Eddie has only been involved for what 3 weeks? It’s about money, it is always about money.

    I have also inquired several times about the price point of these bikes. Do you have any idea on that Mr. Greulach?

  4. 4 John E Adams Aug 21st, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Thanks much for the insights Chad.

    Without knowing either you or Lorenzo I still knew some amazing work would be produced with Eddie as your partner, you guys did find the best to work with.

    All the best and can’t wait to see your first set of rideable art on wheels!


  5. 5 Chad Greulach Aug 21st, 2009 at 12:41 pm


    While I think Lorenzo and Eddie are great characters, we’re focused right now on building our bikes one at a time and gaining industry respect gradually by proving ourselves over time.

    OCC’s greatest weakness in gaining industry respect was that American Chopper was a television series first, OCC built bikes second. It has be the other way around to earn industry credibility and consumer loyalty. Believe me…I get that the association might be seen as a negative by industry standards. You can’t argue with the commercial success, though.

    To your point on “spirit”: Spirit is one of those things you have or you don’t. Spirit means pulling over to help a fellow rider. It means riding out the hailstorm this year at Sturgis together in the back of Eddie’s trailer when everyone else ran for the convention center.

    Of course we’re building a business that we believe will see profits. Aren’t we all?

    Price point: $45k-$65k

  6. 6 jspfc Aug 21st, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Thanks for the insight and good luck.

  7. 7 Greg Hoeve Aug 21st, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    To any of you who don’t know, Chad is a good dude. I know some of the back story surrounding His initial association with Pilgrim Productions and OCC. Chad got screwed on that deal even more than I did. I’ll leave it at that. I’ve hosted him both in my shop and my home. Chad crafts a first rate product with tremendous entertainment value. I have no doubt that his level of professionalism will shine through in this effort. I wish him the best of luck.

  8. 8 just my opinion Aug 21st, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Chad; I think we both know that most of the people that post the negative comments on this site could not find the handle bars if they had a bike to sit on. Anyone that has been around this industry for any length of time would know that Eddie Trotta is one of the top custom bike builders. I am sure that if you were to compile a list of the top ten custom motorcycle builders in the world, Eddie trotta would be on that list. I wish you guys well, I am sure your bikes will be top shelf stuff so long as Eddie is involved. Mark my words in a year the one’s saying this partnership won’t work will be the same one saying they knew all along that it would work, because thats what followers do. I am looking foreward to seeing your bikes in daytona. Good luck guys and keep up the good work

  9. 9 Brian Aug 21st, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    To jspfc,
    Maybe Eddie is in it for the money but I doubt LL’s financial advisor told him that starting a motorcycle company is a smart investment. Nobody gets into this busines to make a lot of money let alone to get rich. There are tons of talented guys building bikes but very few make a lot doing it. It’s a labor of love.
    I think he loves bikes and thought it would be cool to get into the bike building business….and maybe…..just maybe make a few bucks.
    I know he’s not an A list celebrity but I’m sure he could make more in show business with the same amount of time/money that he’s putting into the bike business.
    As for Chad, I can’t imaging he’s expecting to make a lot either.

    I think the bright side is that they couldn’t possibly pick a worse time to start this type of business. So if they can survive for the next few years, then they’ll have a shot at making some money when the economy and industry improve.

    Good luck to LL, Chad and ET on their venture.

  10. 10 Chad Greulach Aug 21st, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    Lorenzo, Eddie and I know we can only succeed with your support. Thanks for the kinds words.

    Be sure to check out our Facebook page for updates on where we’ll be and what we’ll be up to. September 13, we’re doing a charity ride from Malibu to a private ranch to benefit the Bony Pony Ranch Foundation. Food, Drink, Live Music. 200 Bike Maximum.

    Thanks, Greg, for the kind words. The feeling is mutual.

    A BIG shout-out to Oliver Shokouh for keeping it real. Be sure to check out his Love Ride, Oct 25, 2009 in Glendale, CA.

    Stay tuned.


  11. 11 jspfc Aug 21st, 2009 at 4:10 pm


    Celebrities have done dumber things with their money. I think Kim Basinger bought a town or something???? So saying someone would get in this and not think they will make some money would be foolish. I am sure he like motorcycles, but I am sure that is not the only reason for what he is doing. If he has such a love then I am not sure why he doesn’t build his own bike and love that bike. Why is he trying to build 4 different models of bikes and sell them?

    I also doubt at this point in time LL is going to get a major movie or television role. I think he is more famous now for marrying that train wreck Shauna Sands or whatever her name is.

    Anyway good luck to them.


    One last question, where is the company going to be based out of? LA or Ft. Lauderdale?

  12. 12 Chad Greulach Aug 21st, 2009 at 4:19 pm


    The bikes are being built at Eddie’s shop in Ft. Lauderdale. We also have offices in Santa Monica, CA.

  13. 13 Jim C Aug 21st, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Interesting thing about Piligian and Pilgrim. I assume theat Pilgrim did pretty good with American Chopper. Now as I remember OCC was building bikes before the show and getting some recognition from that. So,I don’t get the whole there was no OCC before American Chopper.
    As to Lorenzo starting a company in these time-well seems like a long row to hoe.The problem you and Lorenzo are going to have is everyone will be saying it is Eddie and not Lorenzo so why would Eddie need Lorenzo other than to finance the bikes. Eddie seems to have very expensive tastes and wonder how that would affect any business partnership.
    How are you going to get these to market and what markets are you targeting? I saw the drawings from before and are you planning on sticking with those drawings as to what is built? I can tell you from personal experience that $45K and up price points are real hard to sell in this economy and will be for some time. I realize I may be asking questions you are not prepared to answer yet and if I am then I apologise. Anyway,just my .02 and realize i am looking for anything positive as far as new news in this industry.

  14. 14 nicker Aug 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pm


    “…Lorenzo Lamas has been a “garage builder” (like many of you) and putting miles on bikes for 30 years…”

    Had that been disclosed (and confirmed) up-front, ya might have avoided some of the initial flack.

    “…I get that the [OCC] association might be seen as a negative by industry standards…”

    Well, if LL is a fellow garage tinkerer, one would expect him and you all to want to distance yourselves from such moronics.

    But if the business model is to do and say anything for quick-bux selling T-shirts and cups, there’ll be no escaping “negativity.”

    Good luck with your new venture.


  15. 15 Chad Greulach Aug 21st, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    We will not produce the illustrated designs released prior to Sturgis.

    Eddie’s starting from scratch. We’ll meet the price-points.

    We’re in this for the long-haul, Nicker.

  16. 16 johnny Aug 21st, 2009 at 7:19 pm


    can you tell us about the tv show?

    with you and lorenzo involved there doesn’t seem like a more obvious reason to collaborate. for eddie it’s triple bonus, money from lorenzo cyles, building bikes, and added value tv coverage.

    seeems like a good way for a disgruntled ex-occ guy and c-lister (but a mighty fine looking one) to appeal to all the willie loman’s in the heartland. their wives will go crazy for renegade too.

    i saw the very significant film crew sniffing every crevice around LL in sturgis. pony up the detalis please.


  17. 17 John E Adams Aug 21st, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Wearin Chad out! Thanks for the insider info again -;0)

    Amen and case closed with Eddie building from scratch, a big relief and a sure recipe for success brewing in South Florida over the last few!!

    John E. Adams

  18. 18 Brian Aug 21st, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    It’s just my 2 cents.

    How much profit is in a bike that sells for 40 to 60k?
    With ET involved, you can bet on only top shelf components so no cheating with cheap stuff.
    Split between LL, Chad and ET……..how much can LL end up with per bike?
    And how many bikes do they intend to sell?

    I love this industry and I wish them the best of luck.
    I hope they sell a ton of bikes and make a ton of cash.

    But I stand by my statement……….LL cannot really be in this to make money.
    Anyone in the biz knows this is not an industry to get into to make money.

    If there’s a tv show involved, then that would explain everything.
    And I’ll watch it for sure.

  19. 19 1550tc Aug 21st, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Chad Greulach

    I saw Lorenzo in Sturgis and he seemed like a genuine guy and not some Hollywood ego maniac. he helped Jeff Clark work the crowd for the burn out show down on main street and offered to buy any competitor a new tire…….He was also at the ML show and again was down to earth and very cordial with fans, so I for one wish him all the best in this venture.

    The Price point: $45k-$65k

    I am not sure there is much of a market out there for bikes in that price point………when this market/economy comes back, people might have different values so to this price point might have to adjusted. Unless you guys just want to build 100-200 bikes a year. Hey if can make $$ and stay in business at what ever production numbers you guys figure you can sell, then all the best to all of you. Most of ET’s bikes have always impressed me.

  20. 20 Mike Aug 22nd, 2009 at 1:13 am

    I wish Lorenzo and Eddie well in their new venture. If they are indeed building revolutionary new bikes and doing things differently, then I imagine they will soon be customers of mine, if they aren’t already (through a distributor).

    I hope Lorenzo doesn’t try to go the OCC route and make a few bikes and then focus on merchandising. As anyone (who’s anyone) knows, the time for making a buck as a flash-in-the-pan self proclaimed biker celebrity is over. Anyone getting into the game at this point is going to have to fight for their place at the table and for their profits.

    If Lorenzo and Eddie can do that, then they’ll have earned my respect. And if they are able to do that, it will be by virtue of good designs and solid quality and backed up with good old fashioned American customer service.

    Good luck to all involved.

  21. 21 Rodent Aug 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 am

    Not a another “Rock Star” but a over the hill movie star

  22. 22 Mike Kiwi Tomas, Kiwi Indian Motorcycles Aug 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 am

    I was in several chance meetings with Lorenzo at Sturgis and had some frank conversartions about business and motorcycles. He knew his motorcycles and can certainly hold his own on the older stuff. Very impressive. America is a big country with varying demographics and just by share numbers almost anything can be sold to someone. It still is the land of opportunities.

  23. 23 tholland Aug 22nd, 2009 at 10:48 am

    Although not a fan of OCC and the reality show, I am not too blind to see the value that such a series has on the industry. OCC had a tremendous following with the common, everyday man (and woman and child). I can not count the times someone walked through my door and the first thing out of their mouth was a comment about OCC and the last show. Not always did they buy, but they did come in. I only hoped that when they were talking with friends and co-workers about OCC that they plugged my shop in the same sentence.

    That said…I wish Lorenzo & Eddie Trotta the best, and if they do intend to start a reality show, I hope it is just as successful as the Orange County Boy’s.

    Best Of Luck

  24. 24 BikerMarc Aug 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 am

    Hey Chad, Lorenzo & Eddie,

    You got BIG Balls for starting a company in this motorcycle biz “cycle”.

    Keep to the mechanics of it all and stay clear of the OCC “show” and your collaboration has a good chance of grabbing your audience and creating customers.

    I do like the fundamental equation around your start-up:

    1. Trotta – Great design man.
    2. Greulach-experienced management.
    3. Lamaz – Capital
    4. Lorenzo – Capital
    5. Lorenzo Lamaz – Capital

    Combine the 5 funamentals of this business equation successfully and you should do great.

    Best of luck as you ride out the bottom of the cycle.

    I for one, are watching your creations and when my own cash-flow improves there could be one of your bikes in my man cave.


  25. 25 Grayhawk Aug 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Ya may be more on the point then you think in regards to the next occ/tv/sell associated products from a/the show spirited venue, you decide what is the path and position. Why all the filmimg? hmmmmm. I just wanna build bikes. Is this connected I do not know do you. See attached?????


  26. 26 Chad Greulach Aug 22nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    Cameras followed Lorenzo and his daughter in Sturgis as part of their upcoming family show on E! Entertainment. While it’s welcome exposure for what we’re doing, we’re not as, as a company, interested in developing a series around Lorenzo and Eddie right now. We’ve got bikes to build.

  27. 27 nicker Aug 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm


    Thanks for the Link.

    “…will engineer and assemble the cycles for customers who want to feel like a Renegade…”

    De ja vous,
    “…sometimes ya “feel” like a nut, some times ya don’t…”

    Question is, Is-ziz demographic [Easy Rider] still buying ….???


  28. 28 Grayhawk Aug 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm

    Hi Chad thanks for the response. I see the props on the The Lamas Life and the basis of that show with the son reconciling with dad and the daughter etc, etc. of the “E” Series.

    Also your well chosen words such as right now the company is just building bikes, but guess real question is/was;
    Is it such a stretch that Lamas in hiring yourself as CEO, a producer with a background in biker tv reality tv and bike building tv series that that is the business path or evolution the LLC company is positioning itself for?

    Although segments of the biking community are wide eyed on every word someone puts forth some would just like to see someone say this is what we are doing and here’s where we are taking it to. Is it just about the bikes or is it that and the lucrative tv dollar potential downstream of the initial platform, if so, ok business is business, but be what you say, say what is what ???

  29. 29 Fluke Aug 22nd, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    Chad Greulach “we’re not as, as a company, interested in developing a series around Lorenzo and Eddie right now. We’ve got bikes to build.”

    Yep, right now you do, but considering how many people seem to be involved in the non production side of this Bike building business and what they have done in the past that “right now” seems more than a little telling.

    Whatever you do, good luck, as long as you don’t play people like fools and crap on them like many “Celeb” or TV bike builders have done.

  30. 30 Curt! Aug 22nd, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    1. One thing the biker world can do without is another moronic show like OCC,
    2. If Lorenzo has built bikes with his own hands for 30 years, how about some photos of these masterpieces he’s built? It’s a credibility issue. .
    3. The days of 50k choppers are over. At least until the next generation of rich boys arrive.
    4. If you are still in business in 2012 , I’ll be very surprised.

  31. 31 Jim C Aug 23rd, 2009 at 12:06 am

    In Chad’s words,1st gotta build bikes then the tv show. Of course like anything else tv related,it would not be 100% guaranteed that there would be a tv show but the possibilities are there.

  32. 32 Newtonian Aug 23rd, 2009 at 5:14 am

    As a bankrupt country that can no longer make anything competitively in the face of Far Eastern competition, because of their lower costs and aspirations, for a while it was possible to keep the the bailiffs from the door by creating spin around “marques” and “logos”.

    Now I see that this virtual reality requires TV shows to sustain the added-value we’re scrabbling around to sustain.

    Plus the insufferable name-dropping and manifest insincerity as you spin around trying to cover all the bases so that, whichever tosser becomes flavour of the month, you’re still his mate.

    Question ; when this turns out to be insufficient, what will the next dumbing-down procedure your industry turns to ?

    Guaranteeing every buyer his own TV slot ?

    Y’all just sprawl on the couch and eat your potato chips, there, our nation’s slide towards generalised obesity should continue to provide you with a customer base that thinks lead-heavy agricultural products are the best platform from which to admire themselves in shop windows and other peoples’ shades.

  33. 33 JT Aug 23rd, 2009 at 8:44 am

    Goober, I mean Newt said Whaaat?

  34. 34 Kirk Perry Aug 23rd, 2009 at 9:00 am

    How about making some non-compliant, emissions-exempt, rolling chassis? and let the buyer put in his own motor? That way the buyer can say that he “built it himself”.
    I think you need a line of motorcycles half-built for the small percentage of people that know there way around a tool box, but they want a rolling chassis that’s already fit for a motor and trans.
    So you won’t be able to sell any motorcycles in California. Who cares/ You have 49 other states that allow one-lifetime kits.
    Start something new. Don’t manufacture just another boring, ready to ride, Evo. Get the customer involved and invested. Sell a powder coated black frame, handlebars with internal cables and wheels. The entire chassis pre-fit, ready to load with a motor and trans. Sell them with a trans. Call Baker and see what they have in the way of a universal ratchet top box. 4 or 5-spd.
    You’ll need to separate yourselves from the pack with a new concept, imo.
    Use that gifted EPA, item “G” clause to full advantage.

  35. 35 Kirk Perry Aug 23rd, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Furthermore, consider offering one model based on the V-Twin® 1955-57 replica frame. Why?
    Because with the “one” frame, you already have an inventory of pre-existing replica parts (in V-Twin’s warehouses( K.C & NY) that will fit on that one frame.

    Just have an open-ended stipulation with Ted, that any 1955-57 frames (or parts, like heads), you receive will be returned to V-Twin® using their UPS shipping number. (You or Ted will need to develop a strong, light-weight re-useable crate, as the days of shipping a raw frame with UPS are over.)

    Here’s how the 1936-1964 OHV replica market stands today:

    1. There is the EPA clause “G” that lets everyone build one emission-exempt kit per lifetime. No one can worm around this law as written. The bike cannot be sold for 5 yrs. after it’s built, and neither death, divorce or taxes can force a sale.

    2. The components (frames) are now refined. Don, a chief at the Delaware frame factory told me in May, “I used a set of 4-piece exhaust from V-Twins catalog and the pipes fit my spigot Pan motor and frame perfectly”.

    3. There has not been anyone from the entertainment world that has made the final connection of all the “components”. You can find out which parts to use and not to use by contacting me. I will give you the name of the person to talk to and set out of the picture.
    Someone known could utilize that EPA item “G” to great advantage in the 49 states. That person/organization might also make it stick with California, that miles-restricted, heavy carbon tax, emission exempt kit bikes wouldn’t do as much air-harm as projected.

    4. This is crossroads time. 🙂

  36. 36 Conrad Nicklus Aug 23rd, 2009 at 11:55 am

    For once in my life I can honestly say I agree with Just My Opinion. Eddie is by far one of the top builders out there and has been here since just about the conception of the high end custom bike market. I wish them well with their business venture and hope Eddie gets what he is looking for with it.


  37. 37 Harlan Schillinger Aug 24th, 2009 at 7:16 am

    Chad, Lorenzo:
    Best Of Luck to you all.
    Enjoyed dinner and hearing about it directly from you!

  38. 38 dale Aug 24th, 2009 at 10:39 am

    Chad, Eddie and Lorenzo: Good luck and congratulations on the new venture,
    I spent some time with Lorenzo and some of his team in Sturgis, nice guys, working hard and seemed genuine, I wish them well.

    Why are we so reluctant to let anyone new into our motorcycle world here? Has anyone else noticed a decline in sales, or interest in what many of you are doing?
    There has been wanna Be’s our whole life in America, not only in cycles, but cars,food, clothing etc. And guess what, the real deals always survive and rise to the top. At the end of the day, quality and integrity win out, and have a lasting impression.
    I personally do not like reality TV, so I do not watch it, and I also do not bash the people on it. I just may not buy their products, it’s my choice. Like it or not, OCC brought many first time customers to this industry,just because of the tv connection.
    But my opinion is the V-twin world is taking a hit, largely due to this ” tough crust, old way, nothing new environment we are creating” As a community we are tough on new comers, but we need to embrace them.
    It will be good for all of us, to have new innovative items, to attract the younger generations into our world. Today, they are going to Metric sport bikes. Don think so? look at the sales numbers.

    Many of you are artists, I am in awe of your work, but yet we need to be business people as well.

  39. 39 Kirk Perry Aug 24th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    I forgot to mention an important modification can be made to Knuckle and Pan motors (to ’64) that completely stops the chain oiler (snoot drip) within the tin primary.
    The covers don’t need to be vented. No one will know if you’re running an 1-1/2 x 11mm belt, except that the machine runs quieter and Knuckles & Pan’s no longer drip oil.
    V-Twin will make the motor’s mods for you and there’s is the only stock replica crankcases made, that at have relay boss (a dual-option that allows the owner to drop in an OE style timer or an automatic distributor. You’re getting more bang out of V-Twins relay-cases for the end-customer to make their own choice.
    There’s been a single reported problem with a customer bought set of V-Twin replica Pan heads that had cocked seats. It got fixed.
    My only questions about the V-Twin LInkert intake, spigot exhaust, Knuckle & Pan heads are:

    1. Do the aluminum Pan heads have star inserts for the head bolts as OEM?

    2. Have they made solid, rocker arm bushing replacements for their Knucklehead (Shovel style) spiral bushings – that channel-end right at a rocker arm hole, and flood the head? Guess so. I don’t hear any more complaints.
    The V-Twin Knuckle heads I have were assembled better than OEM could possibly have been. They are true replica all the way to the 3/16″ oil line “outtie” nipple, expertly brazed at the bottom of the stamped lower covers. They are nice heads.

    I’d say someone could pick up the remnants of the ’36-57 OHV industry and have 40 yrs. of repop parts refinement in bins that are ready to ship, by a company (V-Twin) that appears to be solvent in 2009.

    The AMA can use the non-oiler, one-time-exemption motors as EPA fuel for Item “G” kits.

  40. 40 Brenda Fox Aug 25th, 2009 at 11:33 am

    Chad – what a great job connecting with the the folks on Cyril’s blog.
    Seeing some of the comments on a prior blog post really floored me. I was beyond shocked as to how negative some people can be and big props to you for caring about connecting with everyone.
    Great business venture with great people.

    Trotta – name speaks for itself

    Lorenzo – Real deal!
    I worked on his TV show Renegade, have ridden with him and am honored to have him as a friend. Authentic motorcycle guy … with a lifetime passion for two wheels he’s lived his whole life.
    And lets face it, in this economy you got to have passion and love of motorcycles to create something new in this industry.

    Chad – Real Deal.
    We met regarding a TV show project and here in Los Angeles and I cannot tell you how many people “are shooting a motorcycle pilot / TV project”. Seems everyone with a video camera calls themselves a producer now a days. Chad doesn’t say something without backing it up.
    Smart guy, authentic with integrity.

  41. 41 Jeff Nicklus Aug 25th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    If it is good enough for Harlan, it is good enough for me! Best of luck guys!

    Over & Out,


  42. 42 Kirk Perry Aug 25th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    I checked with my source for California M/C history, (and the 3rd charter recipient presented by “Wino” WIllie Forkner.)
    It’s written in the WIld Ones (tales of the Boozefighters), Bill Hayes, and within those pages are the roots of the “Cut Down” (not a bobber), but a (frame balanced) Twin-Cam.
    You need to read about 3 chapters to find Bill Hayes groove, but he’s described an alcoholic club very well (they had an open-side bunk trailer where they would sleep off drunks during Hare & Hounds in Big Bear and San Bernadino).
    During those years the balanced “cut-down: style was developed.
    This (unrecognized, unappreciated in large part, living legend of old iron) person is a direct link to the authenticity of frame balance master and motor builder C.B. Clausen and friends – and he’s been in the m/c parts business since Fido was a pup.
    Tons of history. Tons of photos. Big on story telling. Private and temperamental. You’ll need a guide.
    So, imo, The Lorenzo Co., (Lorenco) should consider make a rolling chassis from one of Ted’s knuckle or pan frames. Ready to go, pre-fit for motor and trans, handlebars, control coils. You’ll need to custom check every frame. You’ll need a frame table and any measuring tool or jigs you need. Don’t worry about the motors and transmissions – the customer can source those.
    A hand-fit chassis is what you’re selling, in a crate. If you don’t powder coat the frame, then sell them for less and let the customer pull them apart at home. (The plan above fits within the EPA item “G” guidelines.) But if you powder coat the frame, then the customer can just start bolting parts on the bike “he built” as soon as he opens the crate.

    The “living legend” told me he’d treat all telephone inquiries, “just like a “regular customer…. if they don’t have their thoughts together, then they might get the dirty end of it”.

    I assured him the person I send him for an interview would be pre-briefed.

    He already has instructions to steer you into 1954-57 (stock or mod frame), no matter what you say.
    He’s the person for black 8″ headlights and Harley-Davidson® riveted foot board mats, etc. A source guide, who’ll be honest with you. He knows the history of the “cut-down’s” and anyone connected to the era. There are style tips from the past that he has pics and opinions on.
    Trust me, if you don’t allow someone to show you where to step across the early-OHV stream, you’ll slip. This is an opportunity for someone.

    One model is all you need for the antique market – and that would be a rolling chassis for a ’55-57 Pan. Their the easiest (and fewest parts) 74 cu. in. model to build.
    You can’t offer them with (fitted) replica 3.5 gallon tanks today, but I was told by Don at the frame factory, that the 3.5 tanks would “more than likely happen and the tanks will be made correctly as real replicas”.

    This rolling ’55-57 rolling chassis is “new territory”……and in the M/C business that just doesn’t happen every day. Luck can be enhanced by preparation. 🙂

  43. 43 Doug Cahn Aug 26th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Would some would ask Kirk Perry to put a cork in it???
    I have never seen so many off subject rants, not to mention he responds to his own replies several times! I appreciate that he is consumed with repop knuckle/ pan parts but there is possibly, a blog dedicated to this subject. Not just this string but every time he replies to the blog we get this longwinded rant on how to improve the world as he sees it!

  44. 44 Kirk Perry Aug 26th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    “how to improve the world as he sees it!”
    Because I have a license. Real important to 1941-1959 OHV. No one sells their book.
    More important is “item G” and that it be utilized.
    It takes that extra-effort to build a replica ’55-57 Panhead, but Knuckles & Pan are pure mechanical religion all their own.
    The people that study the literature on these early OHV models know all of this. They’re quiet. They would not tell anyone to “cork” stoke.
    You’re motorcycles are different than ’55-57 Pan. You cannot understand the depth of 1936-1958. We who understand knuckle & pan know that.
    People most often who do not see eye to eye with my opinions do not own and work on their knuckle & pan.

    Note: They don’t publish all I write here at CHb.com, but they never change a word of text and it’s worth taking any heat.
    I was just telling Ryder in Big H, how I had said everything I needed to about our niche repop OHV market on this post. So I have – until you gave me the opportunity to expound. Thanks for that. 🙂
    Any more marketing ideas from you other builders?

    How about any other M/C book writers? Where’s those guys? Still contributing to the antique market out there? Don’t here much from them. Motorbooks, Intl. got their tongue? 🙂

  45. 45 John E Adams Aug 26th, 2009 at 8:12 pm


    I think Doug was hinting to stay on subject. Your notes seem to indicate you think Eddie doesn’t have the skills to build a quailty machine for Lorenzo – just state that thought -;0)


  46. 46 bigalyts Aug 26th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Good Luck, Renegade Man, Chad and Eddie ! I know the secret of making a Million Dollars in the Boat Buisness. I am going out on a Limb . I am figuring the Motorcycle Buisness a little like the Boat Biz., Okay ! Ready……………. How to make a Million Dollars in the Motorcycle Buisness is to start with Two Million and get out when there is One million left ! Now you all got that ! Now go back to work all you Jealous, Back Stabbin, wish the Worst on You Mfer’s > Find Your Own Backer ! Best of Lucky to you Eddie, maybe you will learn how to Build Bikes for $40-$50 G’s. Ha! Ha !

  47. 47 Kirk Perry Aug 26th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    “doesn’t have the skills to build a quality machine for Lorenzo ”
    Not at all. I mean to convey this:
    We the cult of knuckle & pan only want LorenCo (or another Co.) to produce one (1) style of ’55-57 OHV in their line of proposed Modern models. They will have to have the skills and tools and the mentality to make corrections to V-Twins minor parts. Why would LorenCo want to re-create a V-Twin frame? Get the frame from V-Twin. Send it direct to Delaware if there’s an alignment problem and the guy that built it will fix it. There’s a serial number on it.
    The ’55-57 chassis would be available by special order from LorenCo (or another Co.)[and with as MUCH of a down payment (from the “prospect” ’55-57 builder) as state and federal law will allow. Including charging the “prospect” the legal limit of a non-refundable portion of the deposit, if the “prospect” bails on his pre-ordered rubber-tire rolling, crated, pre-fit Pan chassis.
    Let the “prospect” take trucked delivery of his purchase and use it as furniture in his house, LorenCo doesn’t care. 🙂 They know that when he get’s around to putting an S&S®, or Accurate® or Stett-Bilt®, or V-Twin® replica Pan motor, and any 4-spd transmission into the frame – that the two components will fit – and that the rear chain will be align with the mounted transmission, and that a primary belt (or chain) will also align with the sprocket shaft, and that any stock OEM gas tanks will fit (and any V-Twin® 3.5 tanks that they make in the future).

    So, yeah. That’s something new. A new niche that’s always been there.

    Have your Evo creations for sure. Rave on.
    Most riders don’t like working on old Harleys, but keep history alive by perfecting (finishing) V-Twin’s® parts for this one rigid ’55-57 Pan, on a pre-deposit customer work order.
    Do as I did with mine. Make the rigid Pan a 61A (6V) generator and modified oil bracket for OE style external oil filter and still fit a (f 6V or 12V) voltage regulator in the fold. Ditch the 32E and relay. Try it our way first.

    Here’s the social payoff:
    Builders will be able to keep ALIVE the 1936-1958 OHV motor and transmission and chassis design. They’ll be able to pass the tools and knowledge down to their children.
    There’s a story and market in there? I see people eating up my Pan with their eyes. Guys really don’t want to lose their connection to their tools. I can see it in their faces.
    Quiet motorcycles bring people together.
    Protecting Harley-Davidson® heritage and a society that understands tools and the consequences (get it in the wrong order and you’ll have to take it apart and do it correctly) of “in-line” construction? Pretty important traits to keep alive, imo. 🙂
    Take it to the school “Shop Class” level one day. Keep it 74 cu. in. (don’t let your son build a slobbering big incher. The neighbors will hate him.)
    We have a FINITE amount of parts within in a 1955-1957 Pan. All perfected by V-Twin®. Stick with those two years (but with a ’58 crankcase motor).
    It’s fun to have a study, and a lifestyle. When you know 1936 to 1964 OHV you know a trade. You can stack that OHV “trade” onto other trades.
    {Leak Detection & Repair plumbing is my specialty trade.
    1936-1959 OHV design and maintenance is like both.
    So, I “stacked trades” and use them off each other. That’s what I mean by the (free-masonry??) of 1936-1958 OHV theory and application.
    It’s a finite M/C design that can be studied and applied to daily life. All of the information has been printed and is available to devotees. You only have that with 1936-1959 and it’s esoteric (sometimes hidden) design benefits. You don’t have that with BSA, Triumph, or Evo.

    Respect we, the 1936-1959 Enthusiast as a native American industrial tribe, and give us 6 months and a rolling ’55-57 Pan chassis and let us work with promoting it.
    No results and we get nada.

  48. 48 JT Aug 27th, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Kirk, take your medicine & go to bed.

  49. 49 Kirk Perry Aug 27th, 2009 at 11:31 am

    “There’s been a single reported problem with a customer bought set of V-Twin replica Pan heads that had cocked seats. It got fixed.” – k. perry
    Every once in a rare while 🙂 I get my facts wrong. I implied that the the V-Twin Pan heads (10-1072), valve seats, were cast (webbed into the aluminum head”) at a cocked angle. Not so. It was cocked valve seat machining and was repaired by cutting new seats.

    I found out that the V-Twin® 1955-62 replica Pan heads (10-1066, fully assembled), and (10-1073, heads w/valves) are perfect replicas. What I can’t see from the pics on pg. 466 of the ’09 catalog, is whether the spark plug side of the head has rounded fins like OEM or flat-sided like STD’s “Moderned-up version” of the Pan cylinder head.
    I did find out that the V-Twin heads have steel star inserts, and that alone is enough to give me a woody about the future.
    I’m contacting V-Twin to request a set of Pan heads to shoot pics of, and let Stett inspect them. I’ll have some pics and grit on them that I can post on another site with a url to click on here, that will take you right to them.

    Here’s how it relates to LorenCo and this topic. We’ll pre-certify the quality of V-Twins ’55-57 OHV components and I’ll ask S&S® to create a “stocker” Knuckle and Pan site-heading. Builders can use the S&S® site to show and sell their creations, but only Knuckle and Pan ones. I can copy a pages url and paste it here and it will take you directly to the page. High quality.
    Flathead, Shovel and Evo creations can have their own section.
    The 74 cu. in. site will stay simple and the motors will run trouble-free because we are dealing with finite combustion conditions and flywheel timing – and not the many problems of Big Inch Knuckle & Pan.
    Good changes are coming.

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