Yesterday evening July 10, 2010, John White, who is a reader of my Blog, posted a very long comment (more of an open letter) below my morning post “Hoka Hey Challenge. The Questions Asked To Jim Red Cloud Durham“. I immediately informed John that I will re- publish as is his writing as a formal post so that none of my readers could miss his answers to the questions that many have asked. It’s about the nature of the relation(s) between Jim Durham organizer of the Hoka Hey Challenge and John White, CEO of Hoka Hey Motors Company.
From John White,
“I was not aware of the Hoka Hey Challenge until 28 days before the Challenge began. I called the organizers, namely Jim Red Cloud, and asked for permission for our motorcycles to enter the race. He asked me our company name and when I said it was Crazy Horse Motorcycles LLC he told me I needed to fly to Pine Ridge and meet with him directly. I did not ask why. I got on the plane.
We have been using the name Crazy Horse for a very long time. In addition, I own the trademark for the name Crazy Horse. Trademarks are complicated. I am sure you have found out that I own many patents and have a good background in this area. My trademark covers motorcycles, engines, etc. I have been very concerned about using the name Crazy Horse. There are two bands on Pine Ridge, the Black Elks and the Iron Clouds, that are descendants of Crazy Horse and they do not like seeing that name used or exploited. They have been involved in law suits against a beer company that put Crazy Horse on their label. I may have the United States of America Patent and Trademark office behind me but I did not have the spiritual backing of the descendants. I was very aware that as our company expanded I would probably experience a day when I would have to answer to the descendants of Crazy Horse. Knowing this, I made sure I did not disrespect the name by putting it on a beer can. Last year when Dave Perewitz and Ron Finch and Kris Krome all won awards using our engine I knew the time was close.
I came up with the name Crazy Horse after my failed attempt to buy Indian Motorcycle in 2004. Indian Motorcycles closed the doors in September 2003, a week after I had purchased a new Indian. I had no service. I purchased Rolling Thunder in Seattle and hired the ex employees of Seattle Indian. I purchased the engine program called the PowerPlus. Indian had left it on the floor in Lavonia, Michigan and nobody wanted it so I purchased it for $250,000 cash. I moved the factory to Seattle. I changed the engine from PowerPlus to V-Plus. I purchased all the drawings for the bikes. I then started buying up other assets formally owned by Indian Motorcycle. A British private investment company purchased the name “Indian” and I was second or third bidder. Few know that Harley Davidson also bid.
I wanted an All American made motorcycle with a Native Indian theme. My business plan (which is still my business plan) was to make American made motorcycles with American made parts. In addition, I wanted to have the accessories made by Native Indians. For example, if you purchased a Crazy Horse Chief you could name your Native Indian theme……..such as Navajo. The bags and leathers and various accessories would be made by Navajo Indians, complete with their colors and culture, thus providing jobs for Native Americans and securing their art and crafts. If you purchased a Crazy Horse Chief but wanted it with a Cherokee theme, then your bike would be fitted with bags and accessories from that tribe and so on. This was my business plan for Indian Motorcycle and I adapted it when I could not buy Indian. I adapted it to Crazy Horse. I then set out to fix the engine. I re-engineered it. I gave engines away at no cost as long as they reported the miles and provided me with feedback. We have done this since 2004 and now the engine is world wide known in the custom bike business.
So I flew to Pine Ridge not so much to get permission to enter our bikes in the Hoka Hey. It was my time to solve a concern I had over the use of the name Crazy Horse. I arrived in a storm. It was raining like hell and lightning was striking our truck. On the way there we were passed by a crazy person on a motorcycle, going over 100 mph in the rain with no helmet or windshield. I noticed the guy had a Hoka Hey jacket. My driver, Ed Corbett, who happens to be our test rider for Crazy Horse, said we need not enter the race because this nut that just passed us is better than we are.
Ed did not want to continue taking me to Pine Ridge. He thought I was going to get beat up or killed or attacked for using the name Crazy Horse. I told Ed to stop worrying and to realize that I would die, not him. Meanwhile the rain kept coming down and we inched our way and then it started hailing and we were forced to stop. Three inch diameter hail stones destroyed our truck and nearly broke the windshield. I instructed Ed to stop and we came upon the motorcyclist that passed us. He was dodging ICE balls so I rolled down my window and told the kid to get in the truck. By this time our truck looked like someone had taken a giant hammer to it. The kid got in the truck and was in pain from hitting ICE balls but he was ok. I introduced myself and Ed and then I looked him in the eye and said “your name is Elijah Whirlwindhorse. I had recognized him from the short video on the Hoka Hey website. Elijah thought I was a police officer. He then told me he was riding to Jim Red Cloud’s house to meet John White from Seattle. We laughed. The lightning and stones kept peppering our truck. Ed started asking Elijah if we were in trouble for using the name Crazy Horse. I finally had to tell Ed shut the F…K up. Ed was so worried.
The hail stopped. Elijah told us to follow him. He took off on his bike like a bat out of hell. We could not keep up with him. The hail started coming down even worst than before. I yanked out my I Phone and recorded it because I was sure our windows would be broken. We got to the side of the road and there was Elijah, dodging ICE balls and lightning; it was a terrible situation. He was really hurt this time. He was holding his shoulder. I motioned for him to get in the truck and this time I scolded him. No one in their right mind would ride like that. He is lucky to be alive.
Ten minutes later the hail stopped and we drove to Jim’s house. Ed would not get out of the truck and was ready to go for his weapon. Jim was standing in the front yard, among all the hail stones that had not melted yet. He asked me why Ed would not get out of the truck. I told him that Ed was fearful over my use of the name Crazy Horse. Jim smiled and said that Crazy Horse rode into battle with a lightning bolt painted on his face and white hails stones on his body and you and Ed have come here on Crazy Horse’s spirit. Jim thanked me for protecting his nephew. Ed relaxed and we had dinner.
To make a long story short, Jim took me to his Grandfather Chief Oliver Red Cloud. We discussed the name Crazy Horse. I made my case. No answer was given. He said Jim would give me the answer. Jim told me that it is difficult to find any two Indians to agree on anything. I could ask for the blessing from the Iron Clouds and then not get it from the Black Elks. It was a losing battle. I always knew this. I returned home without an answer but I did get permission to enter our bikes.
I called Wayne Shammal. Wayne is a Blackfoot lawyer for the Umpqua’s. He spent more than a million dollars trying to buy Indian Motorcycle back in 1999. I told him years ago when I could not buy Indian that I would use the name Crazy Horse. He warned me then. I explained to him the above experience. I told him that I would change the name. He said you are a good man and I knew that you would find a new name. I told him that I did not find a new name. He said it will come.
Jim called me the next morning and said my business plan was good. He suggested I use the name Hoka Hey.
I hope this answers your question as to why I am trying to take this mess and form it into an organization. You think I am crazy, I think I am fortunate. My wife thinks I am nuts. My lawyers think I should wait until someone is paid. Therefore, you are entitled to your opinion.”
Sincerely, John L. White. CEO Hoka Hey Motor Company. President, American Piledriving Equipment, Inc. USMC 1973-77
This long letter still doesn’t explain why John White defends this year’s edition, proposing a $1000 fee refund to participants who are not happy. How come can he refund this year’s participants if he was not involved at all with Jim Durham in the Challenge of this year. From where this money is coming? I don’t know people who are gving refunds for an event which is not theirs, at least in part. Or are you buying the “protection” of your Crazy Horse name in working for the personal benefit of Big Jim? What is your financial & commercial association with Big Jim Durham? Your letter is a nice one, but you must complete your answers.I feel, like many, that there is something fishy somewhere in your story.
Maybe John’s wife and lawyers are right. He is just crazy to get involved with what looks like a big scam.
Why create a company called Hoka Hey Motor Company when your company is Crazy Horse Motorcycle? To do what? With who? With Big Jim Red Cloud?
I always thought that bikers are a group of people very easy to abuse. Just play the song of “show me that you are a true biker” and they all rush to give their money to Mister Unknown. And when they realize that they have been scammed, they burry this idea away and tell you that they are the real thing, not you. The real thing is much smarter than this. Did you need to pay $1000 to do this ride. Why not to do it alone or in a group, enjoy the landscapes and have the time to make new friends on the road? And don’t tell me that nobody did it for the money. Big lie. There are a lot of interviews and videos where participants say that at one point of the challenge they decided to forget about the money. It means that they were thiking about the money when on the starting line. A lot of hypocrisy.
Back, way back to the Beginning ! He did all of this so He could get a Warranty on His 2004 Indian, because Indian closed their doors in 2003 and He didn’t know there would be NO Warranty on his Indian, when they closd before HE Bought His 2004 Indian……………..Cyrill thank God you have the patience to READ, LISTEN and Publish BULLSHIT and share it with all your Fans!
SORRY, small ERROR! He (Lohn White) purchased a Indian no mention of the Year. He did say that Indian closed and left Him (John White) with out a Warranty a week after the Factory Closed. GEE let me spend a Few Million to make sure my Indian has a Factory of People to take care of my $10,000 POS.
If this guy is for real the integrity of his company is going to get hurt by this letter. I agree it does not seem to answer any question about the ride and or the people running it. Seeing how you (Cyril) rewrote this I would of probably been even less impressed with the letter and what it orginally said. What is really sad is when you look up crazy horse motorcycles llc. you would think they would be able to do better than get involved with this mess.
Robert Andry. I didn’t re-write any letter! The original is posted by John White himself in “comments”. Check it. Not a punctuation was changed! Be careful about what you say.
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2010/07/10/hoka-hey-motorcycle-challenge-the-questions-asked-to-big-jim-red-cloud-durham/
I think that’s it’s interesting that Cyril published John’s letter. Now, people have some info to form their opinion, good or bad. But I agree, the letter is a nice story but miss the main point. How much John White and Big Jim are involved together. I read the letter 2 times and the feeling I get is that John White is buying peace about the use of his business name “Crazy Horse” and offering something to Big Jim as a counterpart. It’s not necessarily illegitimate, but it seems to involve both the Hoka Hey Challenge and motorcycles (to be built under the name of Hoka Hey Motorcycles?) So, in one way or the other, it seems that they are in bed together. John White may explain here. Thanks.
I’m a bit confused. You claim to have flown to Pine Ridge. Is there an airport in Pine Ridge? If you flew there where did your truck come from? Your story makes an interesting story however it does not seem plausible, just like your claim not to be involved in this year’s Hoka Hey yet you offer to give this year’s participants a $1000 refund to next year’s challenge. If what you say about this is true it appears you are paying Big Jim protection from the spirit of Crazy Horse. Your story about your attempt to purchase Indian Motorcycles also seems untrue. There is a big difference between having the fantasy of purchasing a company like Indian and having the wherewithal to actually do it. I would challenge Big Jim and his new BFF John White to honestly answer questions and open all books and financial records from this year’s Hoka Hey.
Even if the prize is given away in Sturgis participants still have a lot of reasons for filing numerous complaints against the organizers for the way this event was run, judged, etc. We will know soon. Jim Durham and John White seem to share a talent of good story tellers.
Captain Bob,
My name is John White. Your name is Alan Sputhe. You were hired to machine our engines. You lost that work because of your shortcomings. You are now bitter. You cannot even go under your own name. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you are doing. I do not wish to trash you or harm you in anyway. I am sorry to hear about your wife.
Best Regards,
John White
R. Lanza:
How come can he refund this year’s participants if he was not involved at all with Jim Durham in the Challenge of this year? That is your question? Here is your answer. I am a free man and can do what I wish with regards to my pocketbook.
What is your financial & commercial association with Big Jim Durham?
I have no financial or commercial association with Jim Red Cloud.
Don, your comment:
Maybe John’s wife and lawyers are right. He is just crazy to get involved with what looks like a big scam.
My wife and lawyers are usually right. But they do not pay the invoices.
Keller:
Why create a company called Hoka Hey Motor Company when your company is Crazy Horse Motorcycle? To do what? With who? With Big Jim Red Cloud?
If you re-read what I wrote you will find the answer. God gave us two eyes and one mouth. Use them accordingly. Go back and read what I wrote. If you cannot find the clear answer then it will be a waste of time trying to write it over again.
Captain Bob,
You have been rebuked.
Me Dermott:
Well said. Some did it for the money. Most thought they had a wide comfort zone. Many found out what they were made of by the time they got to MS. I will repeat what you wrote: “A lot of hypocrisy”
Bigal:
My Indian was not a 2004. Indian closed in 2003. You lecture Cyril about publishing bull shit……………………..do your homework.
Bigal wrote:
GEE let me spend a Few Million to make sure my Indian has a Factory of People to take care of my $10,000 POS
Again, do your homework. The Gilroy Chiefs were 26K. Get your bike out and tell me where to meet you and I will put $1000 down that you cannot beat me in a ¼ mile with your stock Harley.
Robert Andry,
The ride is best told by the riders. With regards to the mess, if it was a success then I could not afford it. I ask you to please give me a chance to do something with it. Then make a judgment.
Cyril Huze,
Thanks for not changing a thing I wrote. I will say that you did so without my permission. I got your email and your request but you had already made your move before I could answer you. You are a very smart business man. I guess you knew I would say yes. You Frenchmen are hard to beat. It took me 20 years to get Americans to stop buying French pile drivers. Yes, you are a very clever guy. Hats off to you! Let’s hope you do not cut what I just wrote.
John Selby,
Jim and I are not business partners legally. I have no LLC or LTD with Jim. It is a fair question and deserves a fair answer. This could change in the future.
Bob J,
I flew to Rapid City. The truck came from St. Louis as I stated. Yes, I did offer one participant $1000. Of course, he failed to bring me a coin. Can you find a coin holder than wants to give up his coin? Richard Block handled the sale of Indian. You can call him and he can tell you the extent of our discussions. He will also tell you he took a bid from Harley. He was paid 340K to help Audax, through CMA to find a buyer. Richard Block lives in Colorado and yes, he was also a Reciever regarding the Indian trademark from 1995 t 1999. Richard is still retained and cannot say anything hostile to the mark.
I have no control over the financial books of the Hoka Hey. If Jim does not pay out on August 11th then perhaps someone will file a lawsuit, get venue resolved, and ask for such documents.
Chrissy,
To date I have not seen a complaint. A judge would need to grant venue and file a case number. Do your homework and post a case number.
Friends,
Being a long time resident of South Dakota I have been disturbed by the lack of factual information about this whole event. Not just about “Big Jim” and his side of all of this, but other posts as well. So here are a few facts that I do know:
1.) Pine Ridge DOES have a paved airstrip and is listed as a regional airport.
In S.D. “regional” means lights,airstrip…..etc neccessary to land a plane. It does not mean a terminal, lounge or manned facilities. Quite often, no one is staffed or on hand when you land at these small strips.
2.) The paved strip at Pine Ridge is 4,969 ft. long. The average pilot won’t be able to land a 747, but small private jets or turboprop planes have plenty of room.
3.) Most of these small regional airports have parking for vehicles. I would not be surprised if the Tribe did not have more than one vehicle that stayed their permanently for guest use. I know of several ranches in the area that do. One of these MAY have been borrowed.
4.) Crazy Horse Motorcycles………I’ve seen a couple, like the look, tried to get my hands on a couple of those “free engines” for trainers in my college program with no success.( school programs furnish 1099 forms for tax credit……so it’s not entirely a charity case.You get something for your donation.) I belive John White IS telling the truth about this part of what was posted above.
5.) Hot Springs, SD (home office for Hka Hey Challenge) is only 70 miles from Sturgis. Maybe someone should organize a ride for a little information.
6.) I personally, am gtoing to wait to hear what shakes out at Sturgis before I make a formal opinion. Maybe this thing was just poorly managed….and maybe not. I won’t know for another month or so, but I look forward to finding out and maybe even get to visit with a few of you out there. This has been an incredible tale. Somebody better get the movie rights and call Kevin Kostner.
-Darin
John posted just seconds ahead of mine…….it wasn’t there when I posted and he has answered a lot of questions for all of us. Good post. Again, I look forward to the rally and time with friends. Thanks.
-Darin
Hey, John White, do you know how to make a million dollars in the motorcycle industry? Start with two million.
I’m confused, lots of people are saying wait til Sturgis, wait til Sturgis… the Hoka Hey organizers stated on numerous occasions, at numerous venues, in front of numerous people that the prize “money” which interestingly enough is only something that THEY have valued at $500,000 was to be awarded in Homer , Alaska at the ceremony marking the official end of their illegally run race. They’ve already rigged the game, they’ve already made claims that they didn’t live up to and now people want to give them another 3 weeks to solidify their supporters and let the heat die down before they come up with some new song and dance act to explain why no one is getting any money.
About that prize, go to their website and read the rules closely, there is NOTHING in them that guarantees that any amount of cash will be awarded to anyone. They clearly state that a prize VALUED at $500,000 in “Alaskan Gold” will be awarded and they reserve the right to award certified funds, with no amount listed in lieu of the “Alaskan Gold”. The organizers get to determine the value, no one on this blog or anywhere else can give a qualified definition of what “Alaskan Gold” even means.
Why in the world is anyone still believing these people?
John White, I re-read your rambling story post and what you originally wrote and your above “answer” to my questions does not accurately reflect this. You wrote: “So I flew to Pine Ridge not so much to get permission to enter our bikes in the Hoka Hey. It was my time to solve a concern I had over the use of the name Crazy Horse. I arrived in a storm. It was raining like hell and lightning was striking our truck.”
This differs from your account of flying to Rapid City and meeting a truck that came from St. Louis. You mention nothing about a truck from St. Louis in your original post. I suspect you wrote: “he told me I needed to fly to Pine Ridge and meet with him directly. I did not ask why. I got on the plane.” in an attempt to appear be some kind of a high roller who picked up and flew to meet Big Jim on his private plane.
The reason I doubt you are genuine is largely based on reading what you have written. No offense, you do not write or sound like the sophisticated educated businessman you claim to be. Your answers are evasive and appear to be half truths. While your Indian may have been $26M (M is the correct abbreviation for thousand, not K), today’s value is $10M at best.
If you are the legitimate businessman you claim to be, why in the world would you associate with an obvious fraud like Big Jim, someone who numerous genuine Native Americans (including some who are confirmed descended from Big Jim’s claimed ancestors) question Big Jim’s ancestry and whether he is actually a Native American at all. Fairly or not we are judged by the company we keep, and you have chosen very questionable company.
one time… back at band camp… there was this guy who would say he was going to explain everything…
and he would start out with a bunch of drivil which had nothing to do with anything …
and then he would banter about more stuff which did not mean anything that he had said before…
and then he would hurry up the last few comments in as few as words as possible so that you would get really confused….!
bigitch you have summed John White up perfectly.
One more question for honest John. I read a comment to a previous Hoke Hey thread where the great grandson of Big Jim’s claimed grandfather disavows any knowledge of BJ. Who was was this “Chief Oliver Red Cloud” you supposedly met with? How many grandfathers does BJ have anyway?
Sorry John, but I don’t believe any of what you say. You and BJ are two peas in a pod. I can’t see how anyone still believes all this is real.
After reading all this, I am still confused on what Jim White is really doing with this challenge. All we are hearing here is a bunch of trademark information on something that has nothing to do with the Hoka Hey issue. Considering the big legal mess with Indian, previous owners, names etc… I don’t think it’s really a good way to make people feel good about this whole situation. Why go from Crazy Horse to Hoka Hey, why going to see Jim Durham just to request permission to use a name??? really weird way of doing business.
At the end of the day, I still have a huge issue with using anything Native American for anything commercial if the money doesn’t go back somehow to the reservations or programs allowing those people to gain a better life. No matter if Jim Durham is related or not to Red Cloud or this was a Marketing stunt. Whoever gets rich on this, should give it back to the Native Americans. Period.
So far, what John White is telling us is that he met with Durham on an “okay” to use a name. That doesn’t answer any questions that so many people still have. In the meantime, Hoka Hey is still posting stuff on their Facebook page about festivities and people arriving etc…
Let’s just hope the people who won will get their money and the marketing behind this challenge will be good enough to make people feel better about this whole deal. If not, that’s a lot of lawsuits and discussions with the FBI, the BIA and the IRS. And nobody really wants to deal with those people.
Ok just to let you all know I am 1/8 Sioux indian and I have been doing some serious planning and will have all plans set in stone and verified by Price – Waterhouse accounts at large..I will be putting on a 3 counrty rally in 2011…The ralley will start in mexico and you will be required to travel to all 48 lower states(there will towns set up in each state as checkpoints) and then finish in Trois-Rievres, Quebec,Canada.
You will be required certain rest days in certain states only to be revealed in you entry packages. All roads will be available but you must reach each checkpoint and be verified and certified at that checkpoint. You will be required to travel so many miles in a day and rest so many hours during the day(night) All travel times will be recorded bewteen each checkpoint. This is not a race it is a endurance Rally.
There will be venders for food, help(mechanical or tire and fuel if needed) at some of the check points. Which will be indicated in your entry package.
Total Prize money will be paid out for 1st–15th Places and will depend on total registration and number of bikes showing up at the starting point in Mexico.
The Endurance Rally Fee will be $1250 USD.The rally will take place starting on July14th 2011 and will conclude when the last know rider that has registered has crossed the line.
Depending on the numbers of riders registered and funds available there will be several charities benefit from the proceeds.
All persons wishing to join and enter into this great rally Please let me know here on the blog and I will get with you and send you out and info package……
SSDD; David
Stick with the Crazy Horse name. No one seems to bother the Go Go bar chain
they have been in business for years.
Hey Bob J
You ever here Kilogram, Kilowatt, K ohm, should I go on.
K = 1000
most people, have a big money making event, hire a public relations company to handle these affairs.
most people when the heat gets turned up or they get put under a microscope and public scrutiny hire a spin doctor.
This shit makes me sick! Indian or not, it’s all fucking lame! This sounds like a letter from some delusional person. All natives should be ashamed of this boneheads. Crazy Horse, his family, and all natives are not fucking themed motorcycles! How about a motorcycle company called Martin Luther King, or Malcom X? You can then sell themes of oh say, the black athelete, or the black crack head, or the black comic, oh oh.. how about Jew Motorcycles? Even better, Hispanic ones!! That would be awesome..
IDIOTS!!!
cyclereckr, the correct abbreviations for numbers like thousand (M) and million (MM) are based on Roman numerals, not an abbreviation of the metric system. The use of use of abbreviations like K is a byproduct of our deteriorated educational system.
Is Captain Bob really Alan Sputhe?
Bob J –
Possibly in the school just you went to. Our numeric system is based on the metric system – NOT the Roman numerals of yesteryear…It’s 2010 – catch up. K = 1,000. M = million.
‘Tis all…
me.
Didn’t I read that two riders won? They rode side-by-side over the finish line? This race sounds like it was a self-styled “Cannon Ball Run” at a buy in of $1k each.
Interesting that minutes after this press release was posted the Hoka Hey website appears to have closed its Facebook forum page.
Monday, July 13TH, 2010
FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE:
HOKA HEY! A CHALLENGE OR A SCAM?
For More Information Contact:
Loretta Afraid Of Bear~Cook, OST Public Relations
Ofc: (605) 867-5074 • Fax: (605) 867-6076
SD Cell: (605) 441-5692 • NE Cell: (308) 207-5732
Email: Loretta@oglala.org
Website: http://www.oglalalakotanation.org/
So. DAKOTA, Pine Ridge – President Two Bulls: The Oglala Sioux Tribal leadership has recently been overwhelmed with phone calls and electronic mail messages concerning the Hoka Hey Motorcycle Challenge (HHMC) organized by Jim Durham of Hot Springs, South Dakota. The motorcycle run started in Key West, Florida on June 20, 2010 ending in Homer, Alaska on the 4TH of July. The organizers claim that the goal of the run is to raise money for water improvement on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Alystar McKenneh, spokesperson for the HHMC, recently reported in a July 05, 2010 television interview on KTUU Channel 2 News (Anchorage, Alaska) that the $500,000.00 prize, donated by the Lakota, will be awarded during the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in August.
The Oglala Sioux Tribe was not contacted by the organizers of the event and are not aware of the existence of a half million dollars for the prize. Nor is the Tribe aware of any Lakota band donating such an amount for this event. It should be noted that the Oglala people are not the only Lakota band in South Dakota. Other bands include the Rosebud Sioux Tribe, Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, Crow Creek Sioux Tribe, Yankton Sioux Tribe, Santee Sioux Tribe of Nebraska, Flandreau Santee Sioux Tribe, Sisseton Wapaton, Lower Brule Sioux Tribe, Ft. Peck Sioux Tribe, and the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. If the Oglala Sioux Tribe had ready access to a half million dollars the funds would more than likely be used for the emergency needs of tribal elders and children. The administration of the Oglala Sioux Tribe’s Rural Water Supply System is also unaware of a plan by the HHMC organizers to improve the water system with the revenue generated from the Hoka Hey Motorcycle Challenge.
An ordinance that addresses fundraising on behalf of the Oglala Sioux Tribe was recently passed by the Oglala Sioux Tribal Council to curtail fraudulent fund raising efforts by individuals who are essentially “scamming” the public in the name of the Oglala Lakota.
The ordinance requires non-profit organizations and individuals to contact the Oglala Sioux Tribe for approval to raise funds. The Revenue Department of the Tribe will be directed to investigate the claims of the HHMC organizers with a full report for the Oglala Sioux Tribal Council. It was noted that the Red Cloud Humanitarian Fund is listed as a charitable organization to assist tribal Oglala Sioux Tribal members and citizens on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Please note that the primary agent listed for this organization has been deceased for four (4) years.
We wish to express our sincere appreciation to the motorcycle riders who rode and who believed that the needs of the Oglala Lakota were at the heart of the ride. We also express our condolences to the families of the riders who lost their lives during this event.
For more information and updates, please log on to the official website of the Oglala Sioux Tribe @ http://www.oglalalakotanation.org/.
END OF PRESS RELEASE
# # # #
I find this as interesting as the denial of knowledge of any donations or Hoka Hey Moto Challenge on the part of the Ogala Lakota’s…
>>. It was noted that the Red Cloud Humanitarian Fund is listed as a charitable organization to assist tribal Oglala Sioux Tribal members and citizens on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. Please note that the primary agent listed for this organization has been deceased for four (4) years.<<
@ John White.. since i cant communicate to you on the Facebook page now that it's been shut down by Hoka Hey, i'll try to reach you here. Have you read the press release and what is your reaction?
Also, how do YOU interpret the shutting down of the FB Discussion Board at the same time the release was issued by the Ogala Lakota Nation and posted on FB?
Carla Simons,
The Ogala Lakota Nation press release you hang your hat on is a joke. Alystar is not a spokesperson for the Hoka Hey Challenge. You will see a retraction soon. I have no idea why the Face book page was shut down but if It had been me I would have shut it off a long time ago. I am sure you will bounce around from one place to another with your “protest just to protest” attitude. I suggest you put up your own Face book page and then you can control it yourself.
The Jim Red Cloud Humanitarian Fund is listed. Are you donating? Probably not. The Oglala Sioux Tribal press release would not be the place I would do my “due Diligence” before investing in a fund. They cannot even do enough of their own fact collecting to get a press release straight. Neither can you. Why Cyril shuts this down then where will you go? Perhaps you could go to Pine Ridge and see if they have any in door plumbing. Take your meds and relax.
John L. White
Bob J,
Yes, Captain Bob is Alan Sputhe. Do you believe that? Got off your key board ass and go to Pine Ridge and visit Oliver Red Cloud you fool. When you stand in his house and see the photo of he and President Clinton on the wall then you will know who Oliver Red Cloud is. Or ask Cyril. Most Europeans have more knowledge of Native Indian history than American’s do. You are one of those Americans. Jesus Christ…………..who is Oliver Red Cloud? What a joke!
If you do not have the funds to go then let me know. I will pay them and you can then give us a report on Oliver Red Cloud. It sounds like you need a wake up call.
Many/most Europeans AND Americans might feel being posed with Bill Clinton is nothing to brag about 😉
(Likewise, Dubya & Obomination)
“The Ogala Lakota Nation press release you hang your hat on is a joke.”
So, John, you’re saying it’s all lies? That the Oglala Sioux Tribe actually are affiliated with Jim Durham & the Hoka Hey race, yet issued a press release refuting that affiliation?
Are you saying that President Two Bulls is lying when he writes, “Oglala Sioux Tribe was not contacted by the organizers of the event”?
And that he plans to write a retraction? Wait, don’t tell me, it’ll be announced August 11th in Sturgis at Black Hills Harley-Davidson.
The plot thickens — newspapers are picking up the story:
http://www.examiner.com/x-378-Motorcycle-Examiner~y2010m7d12-Ogalala-Sioux-disavow-connection-with-Hoka-Hey
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_d83632e4-8de3-11df-8013-001cc4c002e0.html
Hey John White – every time you write something you make it ever more clear you are inexorably linked to and a part of THIS YEAR’S Hoka Hey Challenge (Scam.) Haven’t you ever heard…anything you say (or write on the Cyryl Huze Blog) can and will be used against you in a court of law.
They can end all of this by handing out the prize in Sturgis. However, this entire thing comes off as the biggest scam ever.
To bad so many in the industry fell for it. All the mags had stories & ads for this. People were talking. I just don’t see a good ending.
Jonh White,it will be a long time before you live this one down,but if I was you I would have named you company Medicine Mountain and stayed away from family names and or great warriors of the past you are today and tomarrow hopefully,so think that way and quit chasing ghost horses.And John mellow out you must admit you deserve some of this,not all but some of the blame!
“They can end all of this by handing out the prize in Sturgis.”
Unfortunately at this point the prize has become secondary. Awarding it now won’t undo all the lies and deception associated with Hoka Hey.
That’s why so many people are surprised that John White or anyone would want to use the Hoka Hey name for a motorcycle company or for any future events.
And Brett not all the mags had press on the hoka hey challenge the one I write for didn;t cover anything till it turned sour!
Hoka Who may be onto something.
…. the prize “money” which interestingly enough is only something that THEY have valued at $500,000 was to be awarded in Homer , Alaska…
The award ceremony had to be postponed until some artful carvings are made on a small nugget of about $10K worth of Alaskan gold shaped like a buffalo. That might take a week and then a few trips to appraisers until the $500K mark is hit… I hope this isn’t the case, we’ll all end up getting a black eye over this. The Goldwing forums are going nuts. When we pass one on the road, they’ll hold up signs saying, “Hoka Hey.” Might as well practice our rude hand gestures now.
I usually avoid discussions when they turn to mud slinging………but my better judgement lost out to my prideful inner self.
– I was there in 1999 when the Fema trailers were brought in and a request went out for statewide volunteers to help cleanup the storm damage that ravaged Pine Ridge.
– I was there with former president Jimmy Carter and the Habbitat for Humanity volunteers that helped build homes for the good people of Pine Ridge.
– I’m not Native American, but I am native South Dakotan………and I take offense when someone who is “not from here” lectures other poeple about the credibility of our citizens.
IF THE OGALALA SIOUX TRIBE PUBLISHES A STATEMENT AND IT IS PUBLISHED IN THE RAPID CITY JOURNAL……..IT IS MORE THAN LIKELY THE TRUTH!!!! THE JOURNAL, LIKE MOST MAJOR PUBLICATIONS CHECKS AND CROSS CHECKS IT’S SOURCES.
– We are not ignorant hicks………just soft spoken, sentimental people who believe it is our responsibility to help our neighbor.
-Darin
Birds of a Feather, flock together seems to be the people of Hoka Hey name , both the Rarun and M/C company
Sounds to me like this guy is tied up with this scam somehow. He’s trying to create the impression that there’s some noble intentions at work, when really, just like Jim, (not really Red Cloud), Dunham, he is just trying to snatch some money from the pockets of us bikers, by recycling someone else’s design. Seems like we’ve all seen the type before. I don’t really see that he revealed anything about Dunham that we haven’t already heard. And, yeah, kind of embarrassing that he, like so many other pale faces, decided to choose a name for his product that indeed, once again, is exploitive of Native Americans. Thanks for letting us know what your priorities are, so we can avoid doing business with you!
Darin …..Sounds great ..sounds like good work …now how about saving America and getting Obama out of office…can the soft spoke people of South Dakota help do that?
SSDD; David
RE: David and your 2011 mexico/U.S. challenge
Yeah…….I’m sure TONS of people will sign right up! IDIOT!
splitpeas 155…..BINGO
All of you folks defending Mr. Durham need to go back and read the rules as posted on his website.
There is nothing there about awarding any cash whatsoever.
The rest of this stuff is chaff, like the stuff that’s used to fool RADAR.
Lots of insignificant “facts” and conjecture posted by people who either want to be a part of something they think is cool, ala the whole “you’re all warriors” BS or by people who have actual financial ties into Mr. Durham and his clever charade. Anyone who thinks that the way this thing has been handled is stupid or who thinks that the organizers are stupid, hasn’t been paying attention.
In the meantime, the folks who write and pass legislation about things like group riding and enduranc/racing events on public highways are sitting back and taking notes and the families of the riders that were killed are still waiting for a single phone call from an “official” Hoka Hey representative.
John White, i just emailed you in response to the curt email you sent me, after i asked you, sincerely, to explain why you still trust Big Jim … then I read the post you addressed to me above… I have something to say to that:
“In the name of the Lord, I REBUKE YOU”.. (Sound familiar?? from a quote by yours truly, John White, made on the previous, now- deleted HHC Facebook Forum)
For the record…
I HAVE in fact started my own forum.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/posthokahey1/messages
In fact, i posted a link to this new Delphi forum in the new HH2011 FB board last night, and got up this morning and found it deleted. Steve J, who set that new Discussion board up, posted that you would be taking the controls of that Discussion Board; have you already? Just wondering why it was deleted, tho it matters little to me.
Check out my “Welcome” messages on “my” forum. It’s open to anyone, any view. I’m accepting moderators of any viewpoint, so that they can see i’m not editing or deleting posts behind everyone’s back. Only restriction it they are not principal partners/organizers in the HHC, and dont have a record of going off in tirades and showing no restraint or the maturity to accept differing opinions. It’s meant as a temporary forum to track discussions, thoughts, and articles and links on this.
as i told YOU in my email, and as i’ve stated other places… well, let me post the email i sent you. I wont post your reply, as i dont have your permission to do so.
sent to you today, July 13 (i sent you this after a short exchange yesterday when i emailed you for your reaction to the press release and you wrote back that it was based on false info, would be retracted, and i should go visit Pine Ridge and see for myself).
=========
John,
If I had the time from work and the money to make a trip to Pine Ridge, I wouldn’t mind doing it.. altho I now have people up there who don’t much like me … so like your driver, I’m not so sure I’d feel safe doing so. Excuse? No, but a bit of paranoia maybe.
And I know if I were able to visit, I would be moved in the same way you have been, and Alystar. I do NOT have a battle with the people of Pine Ridge. I’m sure that any assistance from anyone would be greatly appreciated and needed by them. I have already offered in a letter to Theresa Two Bulls to help spearhead a fundraiser from various bike groups across the country, should they not receive any money from the Hoka Hey 1, as many suspect will be the case. I have not had a response from her but at this time it wasn’t phrased where I asked for one.
I have heard stories about reservation leaders looking out for themselves over the needs of their people; I’m not ready to lump Theresa Two Bulls and others at Pine Ridge in that category as I know nothing about them and have read nothing. Just saying I acknowledge the possibility and I’ll keep my eyes and ears open to it.
BUT, none of that takes away from my distrust of Jim Durham. I do NOT believe he has their best interests in mind. I believe he is working solely for his own interests.
My goal is not to bring down the brand of Hoka Hey, nor to harm the people of Pine Ridge. It’s not even to bring down Jim Durham!…. I just want to see the truth come out, whatever that truth is – because the way it stands now, it can only hurt the motorcycling community at large with unnecessary laws and restrictions being put into effect to limit challenges such as yours and the IBA, all because of the way HHC1 was handled – particularly if the prize money goes unpaid and it becomes a criminal activity (altho that at least would clearly separate it from other legitimate events).
And with Jim and Beth constantly changing stories, not returning calls, being caught in lies, avoiding direct questions, treating the riders at the welcome meeting with disdain (I’ve heard that from MORE than just Jeri, who is ‘out there’), it just adds more reason to distrust them and not believe their latest promises or assertions.
• Has a venue been CONFIRMED for the money to be awarded?
• Has a time been set, so Sturgis visitors will know where and when to watch (so the WINNER will know)?
• Do you know first-hand for a fact that the tentative winner has been poly-graphed and if he passed?
• Have you SEEN the money or proof of its liquid existence?
• Did you supply the prize money to Jim, perhaps as part of your deal to buy the Hoka Hey name (understandable if you did, from a business sense; not so much from an ethical one as far as allowing him to get whatever is due him)? And if you did, do you really trust he will use it to pay off the winner? (obviously you do; at this point, I tend to think he will also, IF he actually has the cash in hand [since I guess it’s changed from cash, to gold, and back to cash/check]… I don’t think he ever expected this thing to get the coverage it has, and he knows that now he can’t not pay and just walk away)
Unlike you, I’ve followed this story for a year now. I’ve seen the frustration and then the disbelief that long-distance riders (many IBA members, some not) have with the way this was handled and the total lack of answers coming from Jim and/or Beth.
Admittedly, they didn’t owe us answers as we weren’t paying for a spot in their Challenge; but from a public relations perspective, even from gaining possible sponsorships, you would think they would be all over the place drumming up support and positive press… rather than totally alienating some of the big names in LD riding who could have helped them from an organizational direction.
Obviously you and I will never agree on our views of the organizers of this event.
Even your good friend Steve J cant understand your loyalty to them and feels differently than you (or at least says he does and I’ve no reason to doubt him). Why isn’t he getting the rath of John White also?
For the record, I have no reason to doubt you and your statements either.
I just don’t understand your blind trust and defense of them.
By the way… this quote from press release:
>>The Oglala Sioux Tribe was not contacted by the organizers of the event and are not aware of the existence of a half million dollars for the prize. Nor is the Tribe aware of any Lakota band donating such an amount for this event,” the release states.<<
True, or false?
Just curious as to what part of release will be retracted?
Carla
=========
prior to hearing back from you, i sent you this followup, about 5 minutes after the one above:
Followup to what I just posted… and i mean this sincerely.
Explain to me why you trust Jim Durham and believe his claims and promises.
===============
the reply i got… exactly the tone i read in your post to me above.
with no answers AT ALL to any of the questions i wrote.
Other than you said the reporter at RCJ was inexperienced and not good at checking facts (i put that much nicer than you did).
So, in sum.. yes, i did start my own discussion area, but i have NO PLANS to "control it" and will not delete any messages. I have considered, and after your challenge i will see what i can do to make it happen, to get many of the motorcyclist groups I know or have links to participate in a rally of their choosing to raise funds for the Hoka Hey. I have general ideas on how this would work. NO MONEY PAID TO ME AT ALL, btw… but a trust of some sort (i have to check into legalities) where chapter, clubs, groups who are interested, would hold whatever benefit they care to hold, and donate proceeds to the Pine Ridge Oglala Lakotas.
I dont have a backhoe, and i dont have my own company where i can take days or weeks off and go dig plumbing ditches like you can. It's wonderful that that is what you going to do, and i know it will be appreciated. I do what i can do, and this will be my mission… to do that, the motorcycling community in general must be aware of the Lokata's, from THEIR point of view and needs, not yours and not Big Jims.
As Alystar seems to have been run over in this mess and completely disavowed by JIm and crew.. perhaps she would rather work with someone who has no vested interest in Hoka Hey.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/posthokahey1/messages
And before you laugh, John White.. it's been set up less than one day, not advertised anywhere other than in one comment buried on the Hoka Hey FB Wall… i dont expect it to generate traffic; that's not my aim. It's just a source of information.
I hope everyone pays attention to the corrections coming out in the Rapid City Journal. Ruth is an intern. A kid. She is the editor of her College newspaper. She made mistakes and she will correct them in a day or so. The Oglala Sioux Tribal Press Release was a joke, based on sand instead of stone. We call it loon shit in the pile driving industry.
When Jim announces an winner and hands over a check many here will eat crow. I hope they are man enough to admit it. I surely will be the first to say I was wrong if this does not happen.
Our first Board Meeting will be held on August 14th in Rapid City. By then a winner and a reward will be paid. If not, then I will eat crow. Meanwhile, those wishing to put their money where their mouth is are welcome to email me. You can sign up on at Hokahey.com
Sincerely,
John L. White
Hoka Hey Challenge Organization
I’m sure money will be awarded also, John. And that all the charities will be donated something.
Too much at risk now to take the money and run.
I would just like to see a trace of where that money came from.
But we wont.
I’d say you’re a half-million plus poorer than yesterday, but i’m sure you’ll make it back in no time. you own the rights to the name, and this has movie all over it.
Rapid City may issue corrections (poor Alystar, has been been taken care of in some way to accept being thrown under the bus by being disavowed of any connection to HHC? sure, she may never have been an official spokesperson, but she was speaking on their behalf AT THEIR REQUEST, per Alystar herself)
I wonder if the Oglala Sioux will issue a retraction though?
Waiting to see both.
Paying up doesnt wipe the grime off the slate.. just covers it up with pretty green numbers that blind some eyes.
But a MAJOR CONGRATS to whoever does win the bucks!!! wow!
Darin Maltsberger-instructor@MTI,
Thank you for the facts regarding all things about the airport at Pine Ridge. You note that you tried to get a Crazy Horse V-Plus engine donated. When? Please forward and correspondence to johnw@apevibro.com. I have no issues with donating an engine.
Glad to see you are going to wait it out.
Shotgunshock,
I am repeating your quote because it rings very true:
Hey, John White, do you know how to make a million dollars in the motorcycle industry? Start with two million.
You can say that again. If I had to rely on profits from Rolling Thunder or Crazy Horse Motorcycles I would be broke. If Indian Motorcycle has to rely on Indian Motorcycle profits they would be broke too. They have Stellican, I have APE. Harley has share holders. When I first tried to bid on Indian back in 2003, APE was grossing 17 million, Stellican was about the same when combined with Chris Craft. Now where is that boat company? APE grossed over 60 Million. Until they figure out a way to email a cabbage they will need to build roads and bridges. Boats and motorcycles are a different story. You nailed it.
Hoka Who,
You have a point. In fact, Alaska gold is better known as fools gold. I still believe. I could be eating crow. Or it could be you eating crow.
BobJ,
K means 1000. M means Million. I may write poorly but you make mistakes too. No one is perfect.
Bigtch,
And we are all confused regarding your post…………
BobJ again,
With regards to your advice on business, I think I will pass. With regards to why I was concerned about the use of Crazy Horse………………ask an Indian.
I am glad that at the end of the day you have an issue with using anything Native American. We agree on something. Jim stated he did it to get water to the res. That included waking people up to the fact that 6000 folks on the res do not have running water. Did you really know this fact before? I didn’t! I doubt most readers here were aware of this.
David,
Good luck withyour Rally.
Mark,
The Go Go bar has received complaints.
Cyclereckr,
Thankyou for pointing out to BobJ what the letter K stands for. Can you follow is meaning for the letter M?
Bigitch again,
Bingo
Pooper,
Now you see my issues with the name Crazy Horse. I actually enjoyed your delusional comments. I bet you have a degree in marketing and a real name to go with it. I think you should stick with Pooper, since you have so many other good ideas.
Bobj,
K stands for 1000. Yea, I am going to run in the next M1000 race! Not!
Heavy-duty,
Yes, Captain Bob is really Alan Sputhe. However, he now claims that someone else came on here and posted using his AKA name, Captain Bob. Cyril removed those unauthorized posts for Alan.
Me,
Thank you for bringing sense to BobJ.
Jsdiamond,
Two bikes did ride in but the video shows that one wheel was ahead of the other.
Todd8080,
Alystar McKenneh was not a spokesperson for HHMC. You will see a correction soon. The Press release is a joke.
Carla Simons,
I read the release. I think it is a joke. Why do you think there is no water to 6000 people on the res? These folks are the real crooks. Two hundred million goes to these folks every year and they still cannot get water to the residents? Why? Now they quote people that have nothing to do with the Hoka Hey. Do you realize that if we go there and start digging ditches it will be horrible for them politically. Smell the coffee.
Woody,
If you go to Chief Oliver Red Cloud’s home on Pine Ridge you will see a photo with Clinton. Have you checked Clinton’s popularity lately? I think your post is a bit backwards. I voted Republican. Even I like Clinton. He has more balls than Jim Red Cloud.
Todd8080 again,
Regarding the press release: I said it was a joke. To understand it you must go to Pine Ridge. I would be glad to show you around. You can talk to people and then you will see how much they do for the residents at Pine Ridge. Who is the Oglala Sioux Tribe in your eyes? Do you really know?
Bill James,
As a business owner and manufacturer and inventor I have had been in more than a few court rooms. What scam?
Brett,
I understand your concerns. Let’s wait until August 11th before casting such a harsh judgement.
Martin,
I read your post. I understand you want to give me business advice. I will pass. I will agree that I deserve some of this, as you say.
Splitpeas155,
Nice story. At least you know what K stands for. Can you relay that to BobJ? I would love to see your Goldwing guys flip off the kind of Riders that showed up in Homer. If I were them I would hold off on the hand signals.
Harley guy,
Just to let you know, Indian was before Harley. Recycling? Did you look at the third proto type? Five full inches of travel on the rear wheel and a multi-link suspension system. Right side drive too. Try going over those bumps in Alaska with that suspension of yours. And when your belt breaks, all you will do is call a tow truck. When the belt is on the right you can change it in five minutes. On your bike you need to remove both the inner and outer and the swing arm too. I love Harley bikes but they do not have all the answers and neither do you. Good clean post however, it actually hurt.
Man do you protest a lot! I am amazed that a man so busy has ALL that time to read and reply to every post on a silly motorcycle forum. Assuming you are real of course. The display of complete ignorance and general lack of honesty is amazing. If you are native, you are an embarisment to Indians everywhere. I watch the video on the HHMC web site. OMG, how LAME! Its just a motorcycle, it isn’t a fucking white buffalo hunt! For fucks sake, makes me ashamed to be native to watch shit like that. Damn, those lame has white folks in AZ and their fake sweat lodges are better than that.
Taken directly from the Hoka Hey 2010 rules page.
“Prize Money
Organizer is offering a PRIZE worth $500,000.00 U.S. (Five Hundred Thousand Dollars U.S.) in
Alaskan gold as valued on June 20, 2010. Organizer, in its own discretion, may substitute
$500,000.00 U.S. (Five Hundred Thousand Dollars U.S.) in cash or certified funds in lieu of
Alaskan gold. ” (emphasis mine)
Quick, somebody find me an appraiser…I gotta special project I need wrapped up by August 11th…
John W,
I totally agree with one thing you said today. If not for the Hoka Hey (and Big Jim) most of us reading here would not be aware of any problems at Pine Ridge, of the lack of running water, the poverty.
I give you that freely. I know i’ve discovered more in the past two weeks about Native Americans than I ever knew thru 16 years of formal education. As i’ve said in other posts, that doesnt say much about our educational system.
HOWEVER… bringing knowledge of Pine Ridge doesnt go hand-in-hand with proving the trustworthiness of Big Jim or the legitimacy of the Hoka Hey.
In fact, that’s been much of the debate and irritation directed towards Jim Durham.. that he is using a tragic situation for his own personal gain.
yes, time will tell .. the time between now and August 11. No venue confirmed, no time set, no polygraph done as yet. I got that info from a good source.
Not much time left to git ‘r done.
and as i also said.. i’m reserving any opinion on Pine Ridge leadership until i know more.
i’d love to be in Sturgis on the 11th. i’ve wanted to go to sturgis at least once the past several years. I do our SEC filings for our company; you’re in business. our quarter-end falls during Sturgis week every year. it sucks. i’m not a big rally fan, but i would like to go there once. this year would be one i’d particularly like to make, but it’s also our first required filing under the XBRL filing rules, and i gotta be at work to ‘git ‘r done’. all that can be confirmed on the SEC website if you backtrack our filing dates; you know where i work after our email exchanges.
i just want you to know why i wont be in sturgis.. cant be. i’m not avoiding being there. i just have to work for the man for a living.
Hey John, I have a 2001 Indian Centennial Scout #145 for sale……Wanna buy it? $8,000
Hey John, I will let you ride this Indian scout while you’re here in Sturgis…..It’s a nice ride! For sure!
Regardless if money is paid or not Jim Durham, John White and other co-conspirators staged an illegal race on public roads across the US and Canada that killed and injured participants and members of the general public. This is why racing on public roads in ILLEGAL in every state in the United States a swell as in Canada. I predict the organizers will face criminal charges in multiple jurisdictions as well as numerous lawsuits.
Hey John White – you are a total moron. Don’t you know all the stuff you post will be used against you in criminal and civil proceedings. Th least Jim is smart enough to lay low. if what you say is true that you were not involved in this year’s Hoka Hey fiasco getting involved at this point or naming your company Hoke Hey motorcycles is like buying a ticket on the Titanic….after it hit the iceberg.
Semper Fi John!
To all
I find it very interesting everybody wants to make comments that are not based on facts but assumptions from the comfort of their arm chairs and none of you had the guts to even try to run the Hoka Hey Challenge. I was there all the way to the finish line and then some. Let me try to enlighten you as to what actually was taking place.
First, the Challenge was not for everyone. It was designed for a very special group of people….those who were a cut above the rest. Those who were looking for adventure and wanting to push the limits physically, emotionally, mechanically, and mentally.
Second, where do you get the facts that this is a scam? The promoters, Jim and Beth were never in this for the money. In fact, it cost them many thousands of dollars of their own money.
Jim and Beth are not experienced promoters, they had no experience in doing something like this, and two people, with the help of friends and relatives put together a grass roots, guerilla style event that was brilliant. They should be prasied for their efforts and the success of the event. Truly amazing.
Third, I was there at the finish line and talked to the 211 who made it. Almost everyone wants to do it again next year. Was it hard? Yes. It was supposed to be hard. Which one of you naysayers is stupid enough to believe someone will give you a half a million dollars for taking a casual ride on the freeway? Don’t be an idiot.
Fourth, were there mistakes made? Yes. As Jim and Beth were not experienced in this type of event, there were no plans made for corporate information to flow from the event on a daily basis which would have put these rumors to bed.
If any of you had been there and seen the transformation of the men and women who rode in this truly historical event, you would be praising Jim and Beth. I find it easy to figure out which of you was not there by your comments.
There is now a band of brothers, held together by their own persoanl accomplishments, shared by only a few, that cannot be repeated or broken forever. These men and women are truly heros and don’t deserve to be belittled by you or any other ignorant ass. Shame on all of you.
Did everyone follow the instructions and check in and keep the Hoka Hey staff informed? No. Whose fault is that?
Beth kept a full staff in Homer for 6 days after the event was over waiting for the last rider to cross the finish line. He was in tears and said he did not expect anyone to be there. Several of the other competitors waited also. Every thing Jim and Beth did exceeded expectations.
Fifth, the intent of the Hoka Hey Challenge was to bring attention to the water problem in Pine Ridge. I believe it has done that but not to the extent it should because it has been over shadowed by all the unfounded crap.
Riders crossing the finish line in Homer were offered $1000 cash for their coin with their starting place number on it, and everyone turned it down. Does that sound like unhappy, doubting riders?
Let me ask you contributors a couple of questions. Where exactly are you getting your information and what gives you the right to attack someone and something you know absolutely nothing about?
The riders are happy. Jim and Beth went beyond what was expected of them. They gave two years of their lives to this. All the crap I am reading is nothing more than excuses for quitting because some of the riders were nowhere near as tough as they thought they were. Yet we had several women finish, one with her little terrier on board, a 76 year old man completed the run, and several injured riders as well some disabled vets. So some people had it figured out.
As to John White and his involvement with Jim…..who cares if he has involvement or not. What has that got to do with anything. Go pick on BP or something that makes sense. Will picking on BP get the leak fixed faster? No. Nor will it change anything with Hoka Hey by trying to figure out what John White is doing. Are your lives so boring and meaningless as you have so little to do but create controversy with something you know nothing about?
Why do you want to see Jim and Beth fail? Do you have a bet going with someone? What advantage is it to see them fail? You may be a lot happier person if you learn to find the positive in things and stay away from the negative. Where was your support for this event? If you had participated in any form, just like thr riders, your lives would change for the better.
Jon C. Your long comment is out of topic. Nobody ever said that those who participated have no merit and that the experience of riding 7000 miles is not a great one to cherish. It doesn’t exclude that organizers have legal and moral obligations to fill their promises and answer these questions. You talk about assumptions? Get informed, there is much more than assumptions made BOTH by riders and observers.
You should read this:
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2010/07/10/hoka-hey-motorcycle-challenge-the-questions-asked-to-big-jim-red-cloud-durham/
And this:
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2010/07/12/hoka-hey-challenge-oglala-sioux-tribe-denies-any-relation-with-organization/
Jon C…Amen brother!!
RE: Jon C.
Can you please post a video showing YOUR bike and YOUR coin AND YOUR name so US doubters can ACTUALLY verify that YOU aren’t just a co-hort of JIM’S and BETH posting that comment?
I mean…..For all we know…..The man on the moon could have posted YOUR comment!
HERE……..WATCH……… See how easy that was?
SHOW us PROOF that YOU actually did the race!\
Because sir…….
YOUR words are falling on DEAF EARS!
TO: Jon C.
Seriously…….What color is the sky in your world? This race could have been done without the deaths, severe accidents and life threatening injuries to not only the riders, but to the public as well!
There was NOTHING said about the WATER PROJECT on PINE RIDGE until the day before the race started!
They promised EVERYTHING BUT a water project! They had two(2)=730 days to clarify if they were going to do so.
The money had been collected BEFORE THEY
Jon C. I am also very suspicious of who you are. Post all info and Hoka Hey credentials so we can check on you.
TO: Jon C.
Seriously…….What color is the sky in your world? This race could have been done without the deaths, severe accidents and life threatening injuries to not only the riders, but to the public as well!
There was NOTHING said about the WATER PROJECT on PINE RIDGE until the day before the race started!
They promised EVERYTHING BUT a water project! They had two(2)=730 days to clarify if they were going to do so.
The money had been collected BEFORE THEY SPRUNG that little tidbit on them during the meeting prior to the races beginning!
The riders had paid $1000 to attend a challenge that THEY thought was to be used for veterans, mothers and children of veterans and so on, but a water issue was never addressed untill minutes BEFORE the race began!
As far as your remark about them becoming better man and woman for taking this challenge…….YOU need to understand that THEY could have gone on the SAME trip and NOT have had to put up with all the lies, manipulations, intimidations, disrespect, and being treated like a mangy mutt dog! And it wouldn’t have cost them a dime! OH!!!! And I’m betting there wouldn’t have been deaths and so many serious accidents either!
In conclusion, since YOU are obviously in bed with Jim Durham and Beth Durham, why don’t you ask them why they brought up the dead soul thingy the night before? Ask them why they didn’t mention the water sometime in the last two years? If your answer to me is……THEY DID!…..Then explain to me why nobody (president two bulls) on Pine Ridge knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT JIM OR HIS water improvement project?
In fact, as per OST press release on 7-13-10 ANY person(s) who wish to either donate to or form a charity to give the proceeds to the OST MUST FIRST REGISTER WITH THE ELECTED TRIBAL COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL!
Please do tell JON C………………..please feel free to Explain these discrepancys!
I will be waiting!
First, I am not in bed with Jim and Beth but part of the non-existant film crew peole have been speaking of. We were the ones conducting interviews and filming portions of the event. I was simply privy to many things along the way.
At no time was any money to go to the water project but it was the hope of Jim to bring attention to the problem. Which it has.
Can I assume psychosis prevails that you would have a coin with a number on it? Can I also assume you made it as far as Pine Ridge and met with Chief Oliver Red Cloud who did discuss the water? Share with all of us what makes you think you or anyone else was treated like a mangy mutt dog.
Now, if you could have taken a liesurly ride, along a picture perfect highway, do you honestly believe it would have been the same ride? And, since you seem to have more info than anyone else, tell us exactly how you could have prevented the two deaths.
The first, no one knows why it occured. Did a deer or something else run in front of him? Did a drunk driver force him off the road? Nobody knows for sure. The second according to the Highway Patrol was caused by excessive speed. Share with us why he was speeding and how you could have prevented it. Was he trying to catch up to the other rider he had been riding with that didn’t stop when he stopped for fuel? Did he maybe like riding fast on a wet highway with a 55 MPH speed limit on a road he had never been on before?
But mostly, why do you think the 211 riders that made it to the finish line don’t feel like you do and why do you think there should not be any attention given to the water problem at Pine Ridge?
Jon C. .
First, you wrote in your first comment like you were a participant. You said “I was there all the way to the finish line and then some”.
Then, in your last comment “I was part of the non-existant film crew people have been speaking of. We were the ones conducting interviews and filming portions of the event”
So, are you maintaining that you rode all the way on your motorcycle? Or driving? Or went to the finish line only? How were you filming and doing interviews if you were on a motorcycle with riders traveling in solo? LOL.
Do you expect that Jim Durham is going to buy your amateur movie? Hire you for next year? Where was the Discovery Channel filming a reality show? Explain to us what means “I was part of the non existant film crew”. LOL
This just keeps getting more bizarre. Hey John C – do you really think anyone on this blog will believe you are not a crony on Jim or John White? Since you claim to be a filmmaker please post your full name and some of the projects you have done. If you are real we should be able to google you and get all sorts of details of your illustrious career. Any real filmmaker would want as much publicity as possible.
Brett
Several blogs have reported there was no film crew when there was. We drove, rode and flew. We were not always on the same route in order to get ahead of the competitors. Some of the crews flew in to cover check points and then flew out when we arrived.
What would lead you to think Jim would buy what we have done? I can see by that comment you don’t have a clue as to how the television industry operates, so now let’s talk about amatuers. That I believe would be you.
As to ownership, network deals, or any other business related items, we don’t even share that with our crew, so what makes you think we will share confidential info with you? Confidential info means information, not generally known, and proprietary to the Company or a third party for whom the Company is performing work. Nice try.
Jon C.
First off I am a resident of the Black Hills and have extensive knowledge of the problems on Pine Ridge reservation as well as others.
While water is vital to sustaining any kind of life……..
It IS NOT the most urgent issue on the reservation.
If it was…..1/2 the population of the Black Hills would be in dire straits since most people fill their cisterns once a week just to have water! Do we look at it as something that if forlorn or bad? HELL NO! That’s the day of the week my kids (and dogs)and I get in my 1981 one ton ford flatbed with the plastic tank in the back and for $2 a load we can fill up the tank! Since I connected 2 1000 gallon tanks together underground, 2k gallons of water lasts our family of four almost 3 weeks! Before we go to fill the water tanks, we load up as much debries that didn’t burn and put it on the water truck to take to the dump! Do we mind doing this? I wouldn’t change it for my life as it gives us all a time, to be close, have fun, get wet, take a ride, and accomplish something in the process!
Let’s get something straight here JON C. I am a Lakota and my family excluding my dad has moved off the rez. NOBODY makes them stay there as though you compare the rez to a prison camp. ANYBODY THERE is FREE to LEAVE at ANY TIME! Speaking from a native point of veiw, I will say those that don’t have water…..DON’T want water or just don’t care one way or the other! I have friends there who have cried and pouted to the point where the ministry donated a very nice modular home to their family, and the next week they were selling meth out of it and a month later it caught fire and burnt to the ground! From EXPERIENCE, I can tell YOU that if they GENUINLY DON’T want to help themselves……YOU can go in and TRY to help them, but what YOU have done will be destroyed within weeks or less! There are many WONDERFULL PEOPLE on the rez, but at the same time…..The corrupt tribal council along with gangs and thugs EVERYWHERE is tearing the rez even further apart!
Soooooooooo……YOU are standing up and advocating the water issue, when in reality the life span for a native man is 44 and is contributed from the Diabetic epidemic, rampant drug and alcohol abuse, gang activity, and wide spread child molestation-rape-incest-sodomy as well as frequent stabbings and shootings from within the family dwelling as well as on the street!
For YOU to state that people are dying because of the water drinkability, is like saying that the guy down the street who just got shot and decapitated died from drinking the water!
Furthermore…….There is no “polluted water” in Hot Springs where Jim and Beth live! I highly doubt that the county would allow people to bathe, swim, and drink from the natural hot springs at the rock bottom hot springs pool….now would they?
Getting back to the subject of the riders……
I am in NO WAY DIS-CREDITING these SPECTACULAR MEN AND WOMAN for the AMAZING RACE THEY ENDURED and personally would PAY GOOD MONEY to hear their storys!
THEY are the REAL hero’s in this story!
The point I am trying to make is this………
EACH and EVERY ONE of them paid their $1000 to enter a race ADVERTISED as an event that was to HELP VETERANS and THEIR FAMILYS and then when they show up……….
They are told (as if they were stupid mutts) that Jim Durham admittedly lied to them!!!!!
JON C. DO YOU HEAR ME? HE LIED TO THEM TO GET THEM HERE JON!!!!!!
JON C. DO YOU HEAR ME????????????????????????
JIM DURHAM ADMITTED THAT HE LIED TO THEM TO GET THEM THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HELLO????????
EARTH TO JON C.??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
HE LIED TO THEM TO GET THEM THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED HE LIED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If this water bullshit had been posted and advertised years, months, weeks, hell…..even days before the event…………………..I wouldn’t be writing this letter!!!!!!
Do YOU get it now JON c.??????????????????????????
YEAH…….I didn’t think so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I give up!!!!!!!!
This is like trying to teach calculous to a cock roach!
Evans plunge is the name of the hot springs natural swimming pool
Bravo to “Psychosis Prevails”. A Lakota understanding Lakota people. John C. You lied about riding to Homer and you admit it. You flew from places to places. Many participants reported that Jim & Beth Durham told riders at the pre-start meeting in Key West that they lied to have them participate. Now, if you are a talented producer, give us your name and your production company so that we can know if you have any talent and any chance to sell your movie to any network. Why do you hide? Dennis J. told you above. Any producer has a big ego and want to be known. Tell us who you are. And you want my opinion? Nobody is going to buy anything on this event. Nobody will want to touch it. By the way, seems to me that you needed the authorization to film. Did you get shooting permits from the local authorities and the authorization of the Durhams? If you think you are going to make money with this little film, you are a dreamer. And during a litigation, all your shooting and interviews can be seized for evidence.
psychosis prevails
I was there and I believe when he said he lied, he was being fecetious as he was being “hammered” by someone. No one I met thinks this was only about the water. There are several charities listed, most of which are veteran based and all are listed on the Hoka Hey website. For the competitors, it was about the ride. They are happy. We are happy.
Hot Springs is not the water Jim was referring to as you have attested to as you also don’t have water to your house. I thank you for pointing out the other problems with the reservation as we saw a little of that while we were there.
Jim simply wanted to make note of the water problem. The charities involved are still there and not replaced by the water. We are trying to find out why some people are so against the Hoka Hey Challenge. It was brillant. Awesome. Unbelievable. And I think Jim and Beth exceeded all expectations of what the competitors were expecting.
Jon C.. You wrote “We are trying to find out why some people are so against the Hoka Hey Challenge.” Why do you say “We”? You betrayed yourself. All your words lost credibility. And you still don’t understand why people are upset? Reveal your name and your production company. Don’t be a coward. Are you in Florida?
Jon C – I repeat my request. Tell us who you are, the name of your “production” company and a list of past projects. You tell Brett he does not have a clue as to how the television industry operates and you call him an amateur. I know a few producers and what I know is all of them are ALWAYS SEEKING PUBLICITY. They will tell anyone who will listen who they are and what they have done. WHO ARE YOU? Why did no one report seeing you or your alleged film crews? If you have ever produced anything on television it could be found on Google so tell us who you are and what you have done. I think I speak for everyone who is not part of the Jim Durham John White Hoka Hey cabal that until we can verify who you are and what you have done in the past none of us will believe you are a legitimate filmmaker. I repeat – every legitimate filmmaker is proud of who they are and what they have done.
Well Jon C.
Once again YOU have contradicted YOURSELF! On the third sentence of the paragraph below that you wrote
Quote: We are trying to find out why some people are so against the Hoka Hey Challenge -End quote
Who’s “WE” (Jim, Alystar, Beth, ANNIE?)?
Next……..The fifth and final sentence of same paragraph.
Quote:And I think Jim and Beth exceeded all expectations of what the competitors were expecting. -end quote
Are YOU on drugs?
Does someone have a gun to YOUR head forcing YOU to say these things?
Do YOU have serious mental issues YOU are NOT disclosing?
Because………….
1. They never announced the winner in Homer as promised. (that was an expectation unfullfilled)
2. They never awarded ANYONE the $500,000 in GOLD or CURRENCY.(that was an expectation unfullfilled)
3.Did they put in writing before the Challenge that the race was now to bring awareness to the questionable water problem on Pine Ridge? (that was not expected)
4.They had no accurate way of determining a winner should two cyclists cross at the same time. (that was an expectation unfullfilled)
5.Has ANYONE informed ANYONE as to when the winner will be announced? (that was an expectation unfullfilled)
6. Has ANYONE affiliated with the Hoka Hey Motorcycle Challenge contacted the families of the deceased riders, at the very least, to offer their condolences? (that was a MORAL expectation unfullfilled)
7.Since YOU seem to have “inside knowledge of the Durhams and associates, maybe YOU could shed some light on WHERE THEY ARE, WHY THEY WON’T ANSWER THEIR PHONE OR RETURN CALLS, AND if THEY THEMSELVES ARE AWARE THAT I AM IN CONSTANT CONTACT WITH THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, FEDERAL MARSHALS OFFICE, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, AND LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMITTEE INTO THE ALLEGATIONS THAT………..
Jim simply wanted to make note of the water problem. The charities involved are still there and not replaced by the water. We are trying to find out why some people are so against the Hoka Hey Challenge. It was brillant. Awesome. Unbelievable. And I think Jim and Beth exceeded all expectations of what the competitors were expecting.
YOU think JIM and BETH Durham EXCEEDED the expectations of what the competitors were expecting!
I believe John C is John Compton who was quoted in the Homer Tribune (Alystar McKenneh, another videographer who was filming HHC) said that John Compton was the producer/videographer who “hired” her in Key West to ride with the pack and film them– per her blog, http://www.roadtosturgis.wordpress.com).
Then after the Oglala Lakota Nation issued their press release disavowing knowledge of Pine Ridge being a charitable recipient of the Hoka Hey Challenge, the Hoka Hey disavowed John Compton as being their spokesperson. a “what does he know” reaction i suppose.
http://homertribune.com/2010/07/who-won-the-hoka-hey/
They also disavowed Alystar McKenneh in the same way. Read her blog (link above). She admits she wasnt an official spokesperson, but they asked her to serve as such for the purpose of that interview.
Interview here:
http://www.ktuu.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=4921329&h1=Hoka%20Hey%20motorcycle%20race%20may%20be%20hoax%2C%20critics%20say&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=213367&LaunchPageAdTag=Search
She’s gone quiet on the subject of Hoka Hey, so i’ve no idea her point of view now.
What i dont understand is why Jon C would be continuing to defend HHC so strongly when they have come out and say he has no connection to them. Heck, Jim Red Cloud even said he didnt know the man, until pressed further……
http://homertribune.com/2010/07/hoka-hey-sees-more-%E2%80%98hurt%E2%80%99/
o well. it is what it is.
>>5.Has ANYONE informed ANYONE as to when the winner will be announced? (that was an expectation unfullfilled)<<
I was told yesterday, by someone who would know, that no location has as yet been confirmed, nor no time of day, for the prize money to be awarded. yet this person still believes it will happen.
btw, Psychosis, you seem pretty sane to me. lol
You are right Carla. Jon C is John or Jon Compton. I read the articles you linked to. Jon C. is caught red handed making many lies in his comments listed above. Now, how do you feel Jon that your ID is revealed and caught in your lies ? Until now, all those supporting the Challenge have been proven liars, or people who didn’t have access to the truth. By the way, Jon, Are you sure that Jim Durham is vet or Marines? Some people are checking with the authorities…
I guess this would explain who the LIAR jon c is
http://homertribune.com/2010/07/hoka-hey-sees-more-%E2%80%98hurt%E2%80%99/
Jon C. disappeared or will comment under another name. LOL
Wow. After reading that I can understand why Jon suddenly got quiet…..hhhmmmm….
Psychosis prevails – if you are in touch with the Federal authorities you might want to keep the state and local authorities where the fatalities and injury accidents occurred apprised of what is going on. Manslaughter (if not more serious) charges are certainly warranted, as well as charges for staging a race on public roads.
It’s events like this that gives all bikers and motorcycle enthusiasts a very bad public image.
The reason Jon suddenly got quiet is because some of us have a life. This will however be my last word on the subject as I have other more important things to do.
I tried to give factual information as to what I saw, heard and was part of as to the event. You dipshits wouldn’t know the truth if it slapped you in the face. Are your lives so meaningless and boring that you have to attack someone and something you know absolutely nothing about as proven by your absurd comments. I will address a couple of your legitimate concerns and try to be as nice about this as I can. It’s sometimes hard to do when dealing with idiots.
Carla first….you would be incorrect in your statement as to me being the producer or videographer. Does this make you a liar or simply incorrect in your assumption. Second, I don’t believe the Lakota Nation was ever named a charitable recipiant and I have never been named as a spokesperson for anyone in the organization. Once again are you a liar or simply misinformed? And finally I am not defending Jim and Beth as much as it turns my stomach to see and hear a bunch of dimwits attack the actions of some of the finest and bravest riders in the world because your comments, all of which are founded upon fiction and not fact, insult the very riders who rode in the Hoka Hey. Thats what I’m about. Jim Red Cloud does not need me to defend him. He’s a big boy. But all of you claim to know more than most and not one of you knows shit.
One last thing Carla, announcing the winner is in the papers and the first thing on this blog. I guess you’re not nearly as informed as you thought.
Now Brett, my boy, you seem fairly normal but answer us, us meaning all those blogging, is this because your penis is small or your Daddy wouldn’t talk to you?
Dennis J….first of all this event did not give all bikers a bad name. People along the way fell in love with these guys. Shows what you know. But most truly eveident from your ridulous comment…you know absolutely nothing about the law. Feel really stupid don’t you? You should but maybe you’re to stupid to understand that.
Ah…the best for last. My pal psyco.
1. Until several tests have been performed including the polygraph, drug tests and route verification, which takes several days, who would you suggest be declared the winner in Homer? What happens if the person you announce as the winner fails one or more of the tests? Every rider knew that before they left so I guess your little group was not in the loop now were you?
2. Who do you want them to give the money to? Nobody would know who the winner was. Who? C’mon common sense if you had any would “prevail.”
3. I don’t know if the water was in the lit or not….don’t care….it changes nothing…
4. How do you know there was no accurate way to determine the winner if two people crossed at the same time? There are several ways dip. Now the fact that you didn’t know this, does that mean you’re a liar. I think in your case yes.
5. The announcement is on Cyrils blog and in the papers. See did you lie again or just show your total ignorance? I’ll go with lie.
6. The case of Hoka Hey contacting families has been addressed several times already but to answer your question one more time. Yes.
7. I do not have knowledge as to where Jim and Beth are nor am I worried about it. I truly hope as hard as they worked they have taken a couple of days to themselves to rest up.
I am sure you are telling the truth about being in touch with the US Marshalls office, the Justice Dept, the BIA because someone as looney as you are probably are wearing an ankle braclet so they know where you are at all times. However we have to question your honesty as to being in touch with the Interstate Commerce Commitee because you dumbass, it’s the Commission not Committee. I believe you have shown your true colors here and oops…. there goes your prevail.
All of you people need to get a life and stop all the lies and bull crap. On a little brighter note, I went fishing today to get a little info and guess what kids. You gave me all I needed here today as proof you don’t know jack!!!!! Thanks for your help.
And not defending Jim and Beth but stating a simple fact….two people from a little town in S. Dakota pulled off what people said couldn’t be done and it was awesome. Sorry you guys all had your heads up your asses or you could have been part of history and not the laughing stock you really are. Good night and goodbye.
Jon Compton must be depressed and drunk because I can’t understand (nor the 2 persons around me) who read his comment) one thing about what he is trying to say. It’s what happens when people get caught lying. They drink too much.
Has anyone else noticed that Jon Compton’s rambling writings are very similar to John White’s – stylistically, linguistically, etc. Maybe it’s because you are the same person.
BTW Jon, I know a great deal about the law. As a former prosecutor and defense lawyer before going into corporate law I am very familiar with many of the laws Jim and you (assuming you and Jon White are the same person) broke. it’s easy for you to be a wise ass while posting on line however I suspect your attitude will change when the cell door shuts behind you that first time.
wow… no idea what happened to my post.. it got all screwed up. dont now if it was my use of brackets…
i’ll try to repost the way i intended it…….. weird weird!
strange.. it cut out ALL my responses between the statements i quoted.
my last response was left intact, so i’m leaving it here. I’ll have to retype my responses to the others. it will follow. i dont think the site will let me delete my original post.. if it does i will, and start over….
how bizzarre.. and frustrating as heck!!
from Jon’s reply to me.. his closing comment….
>One last thing Carla, announcing the winner is in the papers and the first thing on this blog. I guess you’re not nearly as informed as you thought.<<
this is where you totally confused me. If you are saying the winner has been announced in the papers and first thing in this blog…. well, you are wrong. Will Barclay has been named the TENTATIVE winner, pending polygraphs, but further testing will be done on top finishers in case he should fail the polygraph.
If you are claiming the winner is known and announced, that's news that even Big Jim doesnt know.. or isnt sharing. this today.. read his comment here:
http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_63d34e80-8f93-11df-a138-001cc4c03286.html
Quote from article link above:
"""""The possible first place winner in the challenge could possibly be William Barclay, who was unable to be contacted by the Journal. Barclay passed his required drug test but has yet to take the polygraph that is required of all challenge finishers, according to Red Cloud.
"We do the polygraph to make sure that no one cheated," said Red Cloud.
He said that there are three top finalists that will take the polygraph but if they do not pass, there are "many" other riders that crossed the finish line in Homer.
When asked what happens if none of the riders passes the polygraph test, Red Cloud did not have an explanation. The $500,000 will be awarded to Barclay — pending he passes the polygraph test — at the Broken Spoke Saloon during the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally on Aug. 11."""""""
So, as you can see Jon, even Jiim doesnt know for sure yet who has won. well, at least that's what he wants all to believe.
btw, i've contacted the Broken Spoke Saloon via their Facebook page (as i couldnt get hold of them via phone tonite), to confirm Jim's statement. As i was told by JW late yesterday that no venue was confirmed yet. That would be about same time the Rapid City Journal was interviewing Jim and John. so i just would appreciate some clarification if a spot has been confirmed for the prize presentation, or not. many would want to know, not just me.
Jon, I can back up any statement i make. If i'm wrong, i'll admit it, but i can also show you where my information comes from. Can you? Then show me, or stop inferring i'm lying.
Dennis J. I had the same thought. Jon Compton. and John White write in the same style, using the same words, making the same type of paragraphs. Cyril should check their ISP’s to see if it’s the same person.
ok, here are my replies to Jon’s reply to me… the ones that didnt make it into my inital post for some weird reason…
“Carla first….you would be incorrect in your statement as to me being the producer or videographer. Does this make you a liar or simply incorrect in your assumption. ” -Jon
nope, i’m not a liar. i got that information for Alystar’s blog.
http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/http://roadtosturgis.wordpress.com/comments/feed/?source=ignitionfork#stream/feed%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Froadtosturgis.wordpress.com%2Fcomments%2Ffeed%2F
click on comments button, but here is her comment:
“When I arrived there I shot some stuff of Rob that I wanted to put on my site. Or on my RoadtoSturgis video spots. John Compton who identified himself as the Ex. Producer of the feature length doc that they were making asked me the day before they took off if I would be interested in shooting for them. They would camera up my motorcycle and I could ride with the pack. I did that.” -Alystar
Second, I don’t believe the Lakota Nation was ever named a charitable recipiant and I have never been named as a spokesperson for anyone in the organization. Once again are you a liar or simply misinformed?
Again, not a liar. I never claimed the “Lakota Nation” was a recipient of a charitable donation.
the Oglala Lakota Nation issued the press release. It came from the OLN website, under the office of the Oglala Sioux, who govern all the tribal groups on Pine Ridge (per what i’ve been told. If i am wrong on that, someone who KNOWS firsthand please correct me, and if it is you Jon who corrects me, i ask you for proof, as i dont much trust your fact-finding any more than you trust mine.). regardless,I would think this group should know what is going on at Pine Ridge, as far as approved fundraisers or charitable donations.
So, no neither a liar NOR misinformed. You read what i wrote incorrectly.
The reason the Oglala Sioux had no knowledge of HHC’s donation to Red Cloud Humanitarian Fund has since been ‘explained’ in the Rapid City Journal article published today, but the explanation didnt quite sound right to me. jmo.
http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_63d34e80-8f93-11df-a138-001cc4c03286.html
I would also ask who is on the board of the RCHF, and will there be a disclosure of how much the HHC has donated to which charities, and in regard to the RCHF, an accounting of how the money donated to this fund is spent?
“And finally I am not defending Jim and Beth as much as it turns my stomach to see and hear a bunch of dimwits attack the actions of some of the finest and bravest riders in the world because your comments, all of which are founded upon fiction and not fact, insult the very riders who rode in the Hoka Hey. Thats what I’m about. ” -jon
I have NEVER put down, discredited, or insulted any rider who participated in this Challenge. on the contrary, i’ve gone out of my way to separate the riders from the organizers of this event. I do believe the riders have accomplished a great challenge — one, because anyone doing such a ride has challenged themselves physically and mentally, as well as their riding skills (however, to state that they are “the finest and bravest riders in the world” is a bit overdone, dont you think? Do you have any idea of the IBA and it’s challenges? and worldwide competitions and events that are well beyond the scope of what Jim put together? )
Second, i commend the HHC riders because they deserve credit for overcoming the organizational and executional challenges that were inherent in the HC Challenge itself. This could have been avoided if Jim Durham had accepted some of the several LD/endurance riders and groups who offered assistance during the planning stages. I have been following this saga for nearly a year. You? I am part of a moto-community who worry about the impact this event will have on future endurance challenges that have a long history of being run above-board with full disclosure, no monetary awards for finishing, and rider safety a paramount concern. that can NOT be said about the HHC.
“Jim Red Cloud does not need me to defend him. He’s a big boy. But all of you claim to know more than most and not one of you knows shit.: – Jon
yep, he’s a big boy and i’m sure he can defend himself. strange tho, that thru most of the past 3 weeks, it’s been you, john white and alystar who have spoken up defending the HHC, not Jim or Beth.
well… this, with my other post, is what i put in my screwed up initial post that deleted most of my responses.
John White, I have a coin with the number 39 and my son has a coin with the number 38 and we will gladly sell you our coins for the $1,000 entry fee we both paid to enter this scam. And no we will not give you back the money for next years scam…..how do we contact you to make arrangment for the sale of our coins?
Carla, I will be going to Sturgis tomorrow morning and will stop by Broken Spoke on Lazalle while I’m there. If nobody there i will go to Hot Leathers, the dungeon and maybe gunners and maybe bob’s cafe while I’m there. I’m in a cage rattlin mood……I will find out if it’s at the broken spoke or if it’s just another long line of shit……again!
Oh yeah….I will also be taking my mini cam to document anything of interest such as the owner of the broken spoke laughing, yelling NO!!!, They won’t be giving the award here!
Ahhhhhhhhhh Hoka hey should mean……..
It’s a GOOD day to cry (for Beth and Jim)!
Do you think they are feeling any claustrophobia about now?
I sure hope so!
I know for a fact that his part of the article is a lie!
“To make a long story short, Jim took me to his Grandfather Chief Oliver Red Cloud. We discussed the name Crazy Horse….”
I spoke to a blood relative of Jim Red Cloud Durham and was told that Grandfather Chief Oliver Red Cloud died 5 years ago so how could John White visit him at the end of May 2010? Immediately after the death of Grandfather Chief Oliver Red Cloud James Durham legally changed his name to Red Cloud. He told his family that Grandfather Chief Oliver Red Cloud adopted him just before he died because he had no living relatives. Chief Oliver is not Durham’s grandfather and so far there’s no proof of a legal adoption.
Like a few of the people here I’ve been following this race since it was first announced two years ago. I believe I’ve read every news article about it as well as everything posted, printed or published by the organizers.
All one needs to do to see what a joke the race was is to visit the Hoka Hey website and read what was promised then compare that to reality:
http://www.hokaheychallenge.com/FAQs.html
Since the very beginning the organizers have made one false statement after another. Between the news articles and web forums it’s all there in black & white for those who take the time to search (like Carla). The notable exception of course is the Hoka Hey Facebook forum which disappeared minutes after the Oglala press release was posted (which disavowed any affiliation with the Hoka Hey organizers).
One thing I’ve noticed is that whenever anyone criticizes the way the race was managed, Hoka Hey proponents (like Jon Compton, John White and Jim Durham) invariably become indignant and demand to know if the critic participated in the race, admonishing that if they didn’t they have no right to an opinion. They attempt to imply that the critic is demeaning the race participants instead of the race itself. Or to quote Jon Compton’s histrionics above, “some of the finest and bravest riders in the world.”
Well, first of all neither Jon Compton, John White or Jim Durham finished the race themselves, and not by a long shot. I guess they’re not the badass “warriors” they’d have us believe, rendering their imperious pontifications meaningless in my eyes.
Secondly, the race has clearly cast a pall on the entire motorcycling community, particularly Harley riders, of which I’m one. I’d say that gives me every right to criticize that which damages the sport of motorcycling. There’s no telling how many new anti-motorcycle ordinances will be enacted as a result of this fiasco.
Thirdly, as I and others have pointed out, you don’t need to pay a thousand dollars and enter an illegal cross-country race to see America and all it has to offer. There are numerous free sources online for pre-mapped routes that offer far more useful information than that which was provided to the Hoka Hey participants.
Frankly I’m tired of hearing how all of the participants entered the Hoka Hey race for the “experience” as opposed to a prize. If that was truly the case they could have gained that experience any time they wanted without needlessly endangering themselves and others.
I would suggest to people who want to continue to comment to do so under the most recent post I published about Hoka Hey.
Go to:
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2010/07/14/hoka-hey-challenge-update-july-14-2010/
What a joke, I honest thought you were for real, when I meet you.
Cyril, is it possible for you to delete the post i made at Jul 14th, 2010 at 11:07 pm ?
It got all messed up and cut out my responses to Jon C. I reposted in 2 separate posts following and it’s really cluttering up your comments page here.
your call, of course.
Carla. Done.
Hey John,
I have never met Alan Sputhe. I do know this though…he has made a living in the motorcycle business for more than 50 years. Have you? How dare you label him as a failure. Look in the mirror and not think about how cute you are for just a minute. Without A.P.E. backing, your toy, Crazy Horse LLC.would be long gone.
There is a common theme contained in your responses and in those who take the time to read your original post to Cyril’s blog. Your theory of any press is good press does not seem to be working here.
For such a busy guy running all those companies, you sure do have a bunch of time to put up insame, rambling posts on this thread Of course you will tell us that you surround yourself with good people and other BS I’m sure.
I actually feel sorry for Mr Ed, The Test Rider …he comes across as a bit of a sissy in your original letter.
I’m sure he doesn’t mind “taking one for the team”….BUT maybe he will realize that money from “friends” comes at a very high rate of interest……loss of self respect.
By the way, what is the name of your motorcycle company today?
If it has been returned to Crazy Horse again I’d keep that one…it’s perfect!
NorcalGuy,
Well Said. Some of us know the story of John White in great detail, but fortunately one only needs to read his rambling,narcissistic stories to figure out that he’s a loon…so I need not share some of his crazy past, but…Crazy Horse is the perfect name…Or Crazy Ass.
jim red cloud for PREZ, he’s lies almost as well as the current liar in chief…
I know one thing… if the money ain’t paid Mr. jim is going to find out how crazy horse this cherokee vet biker can get.
He managed to tie in all sorts of charities to make you “feel good” about the Hoka Hey.
I want to know exactly how much is donated to the winner, and to EACH of the numerous charities named on the Hoka Hey website.
fuck a bunch of water on the rez… just like the Lakota brother say’s it. If they don’t have water, they don’t want water.
Many of you have heard of the famous Facebook Discussions area that was conveniently removed. The letter that is here was a response to questions that I directed at John White through various posts on that page. I asked John two main questions that resulted in this response that you have read. I questioned John as to why a “successful” businessman would want to associate his business, Crazy Horse Motorcycle Company, with someone with the reputation of Jim Red Cloud. I also questioned the rationale behind John’s offer to pay out the $500,000 prize if Hoka Hey did not have the money. It makes no sense at all for him to do this. I also directed a response to John implying that if he had the money to pay out the prize, why not use that money to start his own challenge and not use the tarnished Hoka Hey Motorcycle Challenge name. Time will tell how this actually pans out but it definitely stinks of a major scam right now.
I failed to mention an article that some of you may not know about that explains another controversial offering from Big Jim “Red Cloud” Durham. I found it interesting and very enlightening. Seems Jim has a history of obtaining money from questionable dealings.
http://www.5280.com/issues/2009/0901/feature.php?pageID=1513
Read up and form your own opinion about integrity.
Steven McQueen, did you ride in the HHC? Is that your real name?
Steve, I do not know anything about Jim “Red Cloud” Durham outside of the HHC. I met him in KW like most everyone else. Also, I rode in the race and my coin number is 220.
Maybe I am as astute as all the Non-Riders, Iron Butt crybabies, and other Know-It-All’s, but I am tired of everybody pointing to that bullshit, poorly written, overly dramatized, Buffalo Caper story as some piece of indisputable evidence that somehow proves JD is dishonest.
I have read the entire article two times and I still do not see how it definitely implicates JD of any wrong doing. Believe me, ALL states have very stringent laws regarding insurance fraud, and if JD was guilty of insurance fraud, he would have been charged, found guilty and incarcerated…end of story.
However, it appears JD was NEVER CHARGED, and what is more, JD was the only partner in the partnership that did what he said he would do, and yet, according to the article, he benefited the least. (Apparently, he did not even get to keep the actual art work he created.) So why do you feel the need to bring this up? What other stories have you heard? The Caper story was all over the internet before June 20th, all the riders knew about it, and it meant nothing to us then, and means even less now. Old News! If you have something new, tell us. Otherwise please stop boring us.
James King, no offense to you, but I think you need to read the story again because it seems that JD ended up cashing in the the most out of that whole deal:
In the original settlement he got $70,000.00, The other 2 involved received $193,000.00 each, but it didn’t end there. JD sold the buffalo to the Ripley’s Believe It or not Museum as the 3rd most expensive item that the curator Meyers has ever purchased for the museum. The priciest thing being Marilyn Monroe’s makeup case for $265,000.00.
…..From that $456,000 settlement, Lund and Rippberger each took $193,000; they sent Durham the remaining $70,000 and told him he could keep the once Sacred and now broken Buffalo.
http://www.5280.com/issues/2009/0901/feature.php?pageID=1518
Big Jim sold the Sacred Buffalo. An acquisitions director for an international museum chain, Edward Meyer, bought the piece. When I spoke with Meyer on the phone this fall, he wouldn’t disclose how much he’d paid for it, but he said it was the third most expensive purchase he’d ever made in the 30 years he’s been in the business. He would say that the priciest piece he’s ever bought, which was a matter of public record, was a makeup case once owned by Marilyn Monroe, which Meyer purchased for $265,000.
http://www.5280.com/issues/2009/0901/feature.php?pageID=1520
James King,
1. Steve McQueen is my real name.
2. I was not a participant in the HHC. I am sure your next question is going to be why do I feel that I have the right to comment. Well, I paid my dues in service to this great country by serving in the US Marine Corps. One of the rights I helped to preserve was the right to exercise free speech which you and I, along with many others on this blog have chosen to do. My main concern is that this ride will cause distrust between the motorcycling community and those that we try to help. What happens when the public returns to the day when all motorcyclists can not be trusted.
3. Jim Durham was not charged in the Great Buffalo Caper. That much I agree with you on. The problem that most people have is that the caper clearly shows a pattern of deception in order to gain monetarily. Do the gentlemen who continuously fed Jim money without asking enough questions hold some of the responsibility? Yes. But the situation also shows that JD seemed more than willing to keep up the game as long as the money kept rolling.
I am happy that you have exercised your right to speak your mind. You and I will just have to disagree on the whole situation it seems. One of us will be proven right here very soon. Good Luck on your stance.
James King,
I failed to forward my respect to you and all the riders that took this challenge. i am amazed at the stamina of everyone who participated. Congratulations to all.
Just an aside to “James King”, contrary to what you’ve written. Mr. Durham received the remains, such as they were of the “White Buffalo” as part of the legal settlement, he then sold it for an undisclosed amount to Ripley’s Museum. He could have kept it, but apparently he felt that the “spirit” would cost him too much to replace so he took the cash.
As for other stories, what about his claims to being a “Vietnam era Veteran”? An investigation by the Stolen Valor organization finds no record of Mr. Durham ever serving in the military, much less being a Navy SEAL as he has been quoted as saying.
Or the one where he claims to not even be the owner of the Hoka Hey yet records in the U.S. Patent/Trademark office show that he applied for and received a trademark for the name and the artwork that he uses on his website?
Just the first two that came to mind.
I think JD is in the alumni for the Old Navy Seals
http://i25.tinypic.com/j9vs5w.jpg
Steve MCQueen what makes you so sure that John White’s Crazy Horse M/C is/was a successful business? I think that you should check the facts with someone and you may find out that it is a big loser. Try contacting Techspec on the Indian community forum or Alan Sputhe
Nick,
Crazy Horse Motorcycles may not be very successful but have you ever looked up American Piledriving Equipment? I haven’t checked on numbers but it seems to be a huge company with international ties. If he has the money that it looks like he may have from APE why would he ever hook up with HH?
Mr. White, I live in Hot Springs, any idea why a semi trailer is backed up to Mr. Durham’s House… Guess you got taken also
John Wjite is only a minority owner in American Pile Driving. The mowner Ior 65% owner i understand is Pat Hughs of Pacific Car And Foundry. John White is the Pres. of Ape or whatever but
is not in charge of the $ . A lot can be undestood if you get or can get through to Spectec and if he will give out info. there was a falling out between he and John Wjhite but have no idea as to where they are now but as on the forum past there was a lot of speculation that they had made up.
I’m sure Mr. Durham will be very upfront about it and explain it all to everyone’s satisfaction. Probably taking a load of toys to some orphans, he’s a giver you know.
rofl, Hoka Who. 🙂
o wait, i rushed thru your post and read “Mr White”…. actually your comment does fit more with what Mr White is saying nowadays than JD. 🙂
Interesting…
A post from Beth Durham on 8/19/09 in my home moto-forum…
here’s the link to the forum, but below that are a couple of the most telling quotes.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/MCTourer/messages?msg=37678.86
Here’s a quote about what the Challenge is all about, and about the charities:
“We are promoting a legitimate fund raising event. We are working with 16×9 Films to develop a 13 episode series which will focus on Challenge participants; military veterans; the communities we will travel through; as well as our named charities. Sure, the Challenge will be a big part of the program but the special interest stories – the lives of our veterans and those suffering with MS; the average Joe in small town ; the hog farmer or the Chiropractor – that’s the real story. We don’t believe “the public would only be seriously interested in the race leaders” but think they will be more interested in issues that really matter.
“With respect to the charities; we are working hard to make this a profitable event in order to have money to donate. But, we haven’t pinned down an exact dollar amount yet. We have been in close communication with our named charities and they are simply thrilled to even be considered by our organization. ”
[ yep, it sure sounds like this was all about the water, doesnt it? ..cbs]
AND quote about where the prize money came from… specifically this:
“On the subject of our banking practices… The Medicine Show Land Trust is the organization that is promoting the event and the money brought in through the application process is not where the prize money has come from. The $500K comes from a group of private, philanthropic individuals who have chosen to remain anonymous. This is not a matter of public record and I am not at liberty, nor am I inclined, to share it. However, I do want to assure you that the money was secured long before we began to promote the event.”
This was August 19, 2009.
To HHC 2010 organizers and John White…
You cant make these statements just “go away” or change them to suit the situation today.
Good job Carla!
http://i25.tinypic.com/73gdq9.jpg
Hey Don Ackerman, as to what you said here:
Jul 19th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
Mr. White, I live in Hot Springs, any idea why a semi trailer is backed up to Mr. Durham’s House… Guess you got taken also…
Here’s a pic:
http://i25.tinypic.com/30rp63l.jpg
I AM ONE OF THE DISABLED VETS WHO MADE THE RUN AND FINISHED IT #024 COIN
I HAVE ONE EYE TRY RIDING WITH THAT, I CAN BECAUSE I DO NOT USE IT AS AN EXCUSE.
I AM ALSO A BRAIN INJURED VET WHO GETS A DISABILITY CHECK,AFTER READING THE COMMENTS ON HERE I GUESS MY BRAIN INJURY IS NOT AS SEVERE AS I THOUGHT.JOHN ,JIM.,, BETH ,JON ,I WILL BE THERE IN STURGIS I HAVE NOTHING BUT RESPECT FOR YOU PEOPLE
AS A VIET NAM VET I WILL TELL ALL YOU NAY SAYERS THIS IF YOU WERE NOT THERE THEN SHUT YOUR GOD D— MOUTH
Sandra send me your e-mail add.
Ranger, you might apply that “if you weren’t there, shut your god d-mouth” standard to your friend Mr. Durham, he wasn’t there either.
Thank you Jon C and Ranger!
I was there too, From the start to the finish – and beyond. I have no affiliation with the race organizers other than that of a Challenger. My coin number is 355. I think Jon C got so much of it right in his initial post that it is hard to improve upon. Please go re-read it and consider it an echo of the feelings of every finisher I have spoken to (that is dozens, but certainly not all).
I rode every inch of the course, some of it multiple times as I backtracked and searched and worked hard to stay on course. My comment to Beth at the first checkpoint was “The directions are not perfect, but they are wonderful and they are much better than I could have made them. Thank you.”
This event was exactly what I was led to believe it would be. I am realistic in my expectations of my fellow imperfect humans. I knew it would be difficult. I knew it would be dangerous. I knew It could kill me. I bought extra life insurance and spoke about it to my loved ones and embraced the adventure. This is not for everyone.
I was honored to have dinner with Chief Oliver Redcloud.
I know for a fact that the leaders were drug tested multiple times, that their bikes were impounded and inspected, that their fuel receipts were logged and checked for completeness and for indications of route deviation. I know that the first challenger to complete the entire course and pass these hurdles was polygraphed at his earliest opportunity (Jim and Beth had to wait for him to be available). I know that the administrator of the polygraph is beyond reproach and could not have been fooled. I know that the polygraph was completed successfully a little more than two days ago and that $500,000 was wired to the winners account less than 16 hours later (as soon as the bank opened).
I know there were problems with this event. I am amazed that there were not more. My hat is off to all of the Challengers who had the courage and fortitude to attempt this. But I am especially grateful to those who worked so hard and took risks personally to give us the opportunity to ride like this. The opportunity to test ourselves and to learn about ourselves and our world in such a beautiful way. The risk/reward ration was clearly worthwhile to most of the challengers. Few outsiders will understand this. Few people climb Mt. Everest. Few of those who do understand will take the time to contribute to this discussion. They are too busy having adventures and learning and relishing life and pushing themselves to be better and sharing and smiling.
Thank You Jim and Beth. I would sign up to do it again tomorrow and I believe most other challengers would too. I know of several who were injured and unable to finish who are hoping for an opportunity to repeat the attempt next year.
The detractors do have some valid points. Making some of those points will improve the future. Making others was just gratuitous and destructive although I would still support their right (perhaps unwisely) to make them. A few of the detractors will have the character to adjust their pessimistic point of view now or to admit they were mistaken in their doubt about the winner being paid. Most will not. I understand some of their limitations. I have more than my share of limitations too.
HOKA HEY!! It’s a great day to ride. I hope to see you in Sturgis.
What happened to the awarding of the money at Sturgis Warrior. Are you a part of the team that set this up? an earlier blog advised that the money was deposited in a bank in SD and that it would be awrded to the winner at a party of sorts in Sturgis. Is the winner going to be about showing up?
Warrior as I am leaving the state of Wa. tomorrow for home I am asking my brother in Law to contact the Seattle Times and see if they have an investigative reporter to check on the Hoka Hey Challange , pay out and the persons in out state that are part of the Hoka Hey Group, John White, Pat Hughs and others at APE and Crazy Horse /Hoka Hey Motorcycle Co. Seems that everyone has gone into hiding. i hope that evrything is on the upand up.
Hello my loved one! I wish to say that this article is awesome, nice written and include almost all vital infos. I would like to look more posts like this .