California Court Sides With Bikers Burned by Their Twin Cam Harleys

Four bikers can move forward with a class action that claims Harley Davidson manufactured defective motorcycles that burn drivers’ legs, a federal judge ruled. the four bikers alleged that since 1999, Twin Cam engines in Harley motorcycles were prone to overheating and caused burn injuries to their legs. Transmissions on models manufactured since 2006 also came with defective transmissions, the bikers claimed. District Judge John Mendez sided with the bikers on their claims for fraudulent and unfair business practices, violations of Consumers Legal Remedies Act (CLRA), and unjust enrichment.

“Plaintiffs sufficiently allege that the engine defect is material because a reasonable consumer would change his behavior if he knew that the engine heat can cause burns and that the transmission would require numerous repairs or replacements,” Mendez wrote. “Plaintiffs claim that defendant knew of the excessive engine heat defect as early as 1999 and of the transmission defect as early as 2006,” the July 21 decision states. “Plaintiffs discovered the excessive heat and transmission defects after purchasing the motorcycles. Since defendant was in a superior position to know of its defective engines, plaintiffs properly allege that defendant had exclusive knowledge of material facts not known to plaintiffs.”

71 Responses to “California Court Sides With Bikers Burned by Their Twin Cam Harleys”

  1. 1 chopmonster66 Jul 29th, 2011 at 8:17 am


  2. 2 Dave Blevins Jul 29th, 2011 at 9:08 am

    This sounds as goofy as the lady in the 90s that sued McDonalds because her HOT coffee was too hot, or the guy in the 70s that sued the ladder company because he fell off his ladder.

  3. 3 Luis Jul 29th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Oh jeeze imagine the size of the covers they’ll put on the pipes if HD loses this one. It will go full fairing or some kind of large panel. Its a freaking exposed pipe. Don’t touch it. Wear pants.

  4. 4 Michael Jul 29th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Guys it’s about companies witholding information about defects and dangers not about whining or being unnecessarily litigious. If we want companies to be open about defects they know of, and therefore should be responsible for occasionally that right has to get into law and in the US that is mostly done through case law.
    Unless of course you are OK with companies NOT being open about defects and dangers and you like to pay for repairs due to design or material defects and not wear and tear!

  5. 5 Boss Hawg Jul 29th, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Very interested and the lid is off the can of worms now.

    A lot of ignorance here in the first 3 responses. AS you TC riders know, the TC runs extremely hot, especially the 96ci, 103 ci and 110ci. That is one of the reasons for the oil cooler on most new 2012 models as standard equipment plus the heat shields starting in ’09, but those are not going to fix the problem.

    I have complained to dealers about the excessive heat generated even with rear cylinder shut down and also the oil blow-by out the breather on my ’08 till you get tired. Think HD cares about your balls, prostate, thighs and burns? Well they will if this hits class action status. I wear heavy jeans and riding boots at all times with one exception of shorts at the beach way back and yes my thighs got burnt from the excessive heat flowing from the rear rocker, head and exhaust.

    Plus 5th gear whining, however the back cut gear fix on the later models does not all alleviate the tranny noise in the ’07 and ’08 models. Tell me it’s normal my ass.

    Cyril…please tell us more and the law firm that will be handling the class action as you gather more info.

    These complainants also need to go to the NHSTA.

    Boss Hawg

  6. 6 mad andy Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:25 am

    Hey Boss……Get a goldwing already.

  7. 7 just my opinion Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    I don’t agree with this action at all. First is the fact that these bikes are purchased by people that for the most part know they are built using 1950 technology. If they wanted a bike that has all the latest and greatest technology they would have bought a Honda. Then you have the fact that the only winner in a class action lawsuit is the attorneys. Those attorneys will get half of any damages, then split the balance between half a million people so what will the riders of these bikes get two dollars? And finally if you want the bike to run cooler there are many options. Not to mention the fact that half of these over heating problems are caused by the government regulations that make these companies like Harley meet certain guidelines as to emissions and that causes heating in these engines. Should we now sue the government? It is my opinion that some times legal action is neccisary but stuff like this I am not convinced will do anything to change the way a big company like Harley does business. Lets remember that it is the same riders sueing that insist on that cool look that keep these bike stuck in the 1950’s so who’s fault is it really. Harley must make bikes that people will buy, but then that puts them in a situation where people want to sue them for giving them the bikes they want. But in the end a jury will likely award a couple million and the attorney’s will be happy and these riders that think they will get some money will be very disappointed when they get their check for 2 dollar minus postage.

  8. 8 live2rideaglide Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    If you can stand the heat , get you an suv , puss. Were these girls wearing shorts and flip-flops?

  9. 9 Sean Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    What a bunch of candy asses. Get a Prius so you can sip your latte while wearing your flip flops and listen to the Cure. Jesus what happened to men who just ride and deal with shit. Cowboy up cupcake.

  10. 10 TRexSG Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    This is a bunch of BS unless the Fedral Court is going to make the EPA a party to the suit since it is their rules that create the super hot engines in the first place.

    Yes they are air cooled engines with idiotic government restrictions and we all know this when we buy them so if it bothers you then do an EFI recalibration or carb adjustment, put on an oil cooler and or a different exhaust. All will solve them “problem” (except the goverment over regulation problem).

    That said, I have had 3 Twin Cams with ZERO issues. An ’01 Super Glide , an ’06 Low Rider and an ’06 Street Glide. Living in AZ and riding pretty much year round only once did the Street Glide get hot enough to do the automatic rear cylinder shut down but it still never had any oil blow by or oil consumption.

    And I bet if you sat your rear 6″ from the manifold or exhaust of your car it would get hot too!!!

    As for gear noise all I can say is mine never had any!

  11. 11 Luis Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    “Plaintiffs sufficiently allege that the engine defect is material because a reasonable consumer would change his behavior if he knew that the engine heat can cause burns ”

    What behavior would need to be changed? Aside from not wearing inappropriate clothing as stated in the manual.

  12. 12 Mark Pavlica Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Don’t worry Harley we’ve got your back can anyone say +1 oil pan.

  13. 13 Tom Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    They do have a bearing problem in transmission

  14. 14 Sean Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    I forgot to mention the EPA in my rant. Lift stupid restrictions get cooler motors. It’s all bullshit.

  15. 15 FXRocket Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Curious, Did they keep riding the motorcycle? lol bastards..anyways I think these 4 guys should stop riding, leave this country and stop adding to the mess we already have in california with all the EPA and ARB regulations….I think these guys should focus on distracted freakin drivers!!!!

  16. 16 XH-D Rider Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    So the dumb shits that wear short don’t like to get there legs burnt.
    Such a shame they now have a scar from being stupid

  17. 17 bigalyts Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    It is always about the Factory’s not telling us their Industrial secrets and their Government benefits, and Government (EPA) looking after our benefits to impose new Laws. Too much Government, to many Law Makers, to many Attorney’s and now here comes the Internet. “Michael” keeping us more informed than ever. WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT is a Democracy, not a Republic. Too many Laws.

  18. 18 burnout Jul 29th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    A I R C O O L E D E N G I N E ! Keep the air flowing! My Mom’s Gold Wing is THE hottest bike I have ridden! Will be VERY interesting how this case goes. peace

  19. 19 Luis Jul 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    @bigalyts The US is a constitutional republic .

  20. 20 hoyt Jul 29th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    The bulk of the comments above are missing the point & perpetuate sub par engineering whether it comes from HD or some other company (US-based or foreign) for whatever product that is produced.

    Do the “Be a Man” commenters really think HD management didn’t know the engine heat from a 96-inch 45-degree twin would not be questionable?

    HD got caught up in a displacement race with Victory who has used an oil cooler on a 50 degree twin from its inception (92 inch motor).

    Don’t put this on the people who called bullshit; put it on HD for not executing. Why would you want your engine to run hotter than it needs to run?

    All the after-market engine builders are probably happy HD failed to do the right thing the first time.

  21. 21 ron Jul 29th, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Who would think that a piece of metal with gasoline exploding inside would get hot? Duh! Don’t wear shorts on a Harley!

  22. 22 Richard Jul 29th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Something is wrong here. Internal combustion engines produce and emit heat. Where’s the “defect”? If you sit in traffic with no air flowing by the engine…it will get hot. Oh yea…don’t touch the exhaust pipe or shield you dumb shit or you will get burned. I’ve had three TC’s and I’ve never been burned and have sat on main street in Sturgis in 100 degree temps “forever” and never been burned. If your talking about unconfortable, Yes but that goes for all air cooled bikes and some water cooled also. Have you tried driving a car? You can get AC and not have to worry about engine heat.

  23. 23 Mike Jul 29th, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Whether HD officially came forward with the information or not, isn’t this common knowledge? I must be confused about what a “reasonable consumer” is…

  24. 24 Boss Hawg Jul 29th, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Bunch of biased keyboard commandos at their best.

    Boss Hawg

  25. 25 Toby Jul 29th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    I agree with Boss Hawg. Go read the complaint before you pontificate. This has more to do with express and implied warranty issues than getting your leg burned on a hot cylinder. No one is claiming punitive injury here. Some of the claims will likely fail, but some have merit, and might benefit us all via extended warranties on specific parts. Never fear. HD will get their day in court.

  26. 26 fuji Jul 29th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Back a few years 4 or 5. I remember reading several post,

    Harley, engines catching fire /starting pants fires and the riders bailing off to put out flames on clothing.

    Also something about dealer denial when the bikes were taken to dealer. Dealer denial, couldnt be.

    I will look back for the stories.

    Doesn’t sound like sissy’s to me.

  27. 27 live2rideaglide Jul 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Yea them there lawsuits just benefit us all. Where would we be without all them wonderful , helpful lawsuits that add millions of dollars to the cost of products and services that we all pay for. I’ve been riding v-twins since the 60’s , guess what , they all run hotter on the rear cylinder. From 65 panhead to shovels and iron head sporster to the TC I ride now they get hot cause they get hot air from the front cylinder to cool it.
    I can see it now, WARNING CYLINDER MAY GET HOT WHEN ENGINE IS RUNNING SO DON’T STICK YOUR TONGUE ON IT DUFUS. Putting an internal combustion engine between your legs involves some risk and discomfort , so don’t ride em if you don’t like it. There are all kinds of crap out there that won’t get you hot , so get off the Harley and ride a nice cool Gold Wing or golf cart or better yet , a Vespa.

  28. 28 Where will H-D put the new warning labels? Jul 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    The ladies who filed this lawsuit belong on Hondas, not Harleys.

  29. 29 TRexSG Jul 29th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    “Four bikers can move forward with a class action that claims Harley Davidson manufactured defective motorcycles that burn drivers’ legs, a federal judge ruled.”

    Haven’t motorcycles been buring peoles legs since they were first built?

    Class Action status for four people?? They must be lawyers. To stupid to ride but with enough gall to sue!

    Total BS.

  30. 30 Kber45 Jul 29th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    I can tell you from my own experiences about the crap the factory used to sell.

    Bikers were loyal to the factory but HD moved on….sorry we no longer sell parts for your shovel, how about a T-shirt?

    They were too busy selling an image to yuppies……….sorry I mean “enthusiasts”.

    It is kind of funny to see these “enthusiasts” now turn of the factory because the bikes do very bike like things such as run hot.

  31. 31 Mike Jul 29th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    This is why, I look down in disgust with these “riders” who wouldnt touch a custom, know how to work on their bike but can chastise everybody else.AND Baggers are it!

    Hopefully they get hit by a tractor or a flying fish.

    Not many ‘cool’ riders anymore, just a bunch of fashion wannabes

    Wimps, But Harley caters to em, so you reap what you sow! ( Is that sow like in planting or is that a female pig?) I don’t know.

    Hey anybody got a Faygo?

  32. 32 miteychopperbiker Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Boss…stop your whining. Man up and be a biker. Bet you complain when a bug hits your face too. Sue the city for not debugging their airspace. Engine parts create heat. Air cooled engines create more heat. If you can’t stand the heat, buy a radiator cooled metric and enjoy riding your inseam cooled geezer ass down the road. peace out.

  33. 33 Michael Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    I ride Texas to California constantly -in 100+ degree heat- and never had a complaint on my ’07, even when the oil temp rises over 300 degrees in standstill traffic (which it does all too often). No oil cooler, no +1 oil pan and no complaints. Boss Hawg, you are the picture placed next to keyboard commando in the interweb’s dictionary. You only post here to try and direct traffic back to your knockoff Cyril Huze “news site”. I can’t think of the last post I read on this site where you didn’t chime in with your BS. STFU and jockey that ’08 instead your keyboard. No apologies Cyril, I’m tired of hearing this flea’s crap and watching him leech off this site like a parasite.

  34. 34 miteychopperbiker Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Hey Michael….i did not know what you were referring to…so i googled it.. now i get it.

    Urban Dictionary: Keyboard Commando – […Keyboard%20Co… – Someone who acts tough behind a keyboard online, but can’t say the same things in real life.

    You make a great point about the heat issue. I ride up North and appreciate the tolerable heat the bike throws off. It helps to elongate my riding season in the cold weather. You are more qualified than I to pass judgement living in the South.

    New to this blog but do see in the arrchives that Boss seems to pontificate on posted blogs about many topics and appears to disturb the harmonious good nature of Cyril’s intent in posting for all us gear heads quite often. Takin’ himself and life too seriously, I guess, adding much needed relevance to his ego and life.

    All a lawsuit will do is cause HD to offset the cost by increasing prices to us all once their overseas sales take off and the US becomes less important to the global brand they continue to intelligently build. peace out

  35. 35 David Jul 29th, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    Shut up and go buy yourself a EVO with a carb and timing you can set and get off the Govt. Regs.
    How many of these guys changed out the exhaust and caused a lean condition?


  36. 36 hoyt Jul 30th, 2011 at 1:04 am

    It’s not about an engine running hot. It’s about an engine running hotter than it should

  37. 37 Nobody Jul 30th, 2011 at 1:48 am

    The McDonalds thing was a punitive action against McD’s as a result of several prior suits where McD was warned to lower the temp, rather than rewarding stupidity. If I recall correctly.

    Maybe HD was up to hijinks with shit running too hot (EPA should loosen on bikes, we’re a drop in the ocean emission wise), maybe not. thats for the lawyers to get paid shit tons more mula than I, to hash out.

    Yeah the nuts get toasty in slow traffic, but I knew that was part & parcel when I bought a sled.

    As an old neighbor once put it “Know the Devil’s price before you go calling on him for a deal.”

  38. 38 victory rider Jul 30th, 2011 at 4:00 am

    The knowledge of the heat problem is known only to previous H-D owners. I’ve ridin for 45 years and never knew of the H-D problems until I bought a new 08 ultra. first thing was the baked thighs, then the dancing rear end , that wanted to come up to front in a power stop.
    since I had just sold my 03 goldwing and decided to try a H-D, I was used to the cruise holding at any speed, not kicking out at 80 and falling back at the sight of a incline. On my GW I would set the pace at 75 and watch my H-D buddys fall back as we went up a hill.
    the last straw was when i took my H-D in for a starting grind and they wound up damn near rebuilding the whole tranny and some other stuff that i don’t even know what was going on. but, i was told it was about $1900 just in parts. good thing i had the ext warr.
    I had a loaner with the 103 during the repair time, 2 minutes on that bike made me start looking for a new bike, and it wasn’t going to be another H-D.
    as soon as my bike came out of service, I traded it in for the 11 victory xc. no ass end dancing, plenty of power, rear end stability, firm braking, more cockpit room.
    prior to the ’09, H-D was built on old technology , except for the price and electronic fuel injection.
    I know you hard core H-D boys will stay with the H-D no matter what, and that’s ok. But 3 yrs. on one was enough for me. even though I wasn’t pleased with it, and down right pissed at H-D, I wouldn’t sue , I just wouldn’t buy another one.

  39. 39 chopperfreak29 Jul 30th, 2011 at 5:03 am

    Ummmm….so it makes you a baby to not want your pants to start smoldering when riding a bike? Happened to me on an ’08 HD TC. My leg was the proper distance from the engine and my pants literally began to smolder from the heat. I’m just glad I hadn’t spilled any fuel or anything and immediately took the bike back. Sounds like a problem to me. One of the many reasons Twin Cams suck. And if they build a tranny and know it to be defective, but still sell it, that makes them liable for all repairs to said transmissions. That’s called poor quality control and cheating/lying to people about it. I guess “real” bikers enjoy being ripped off and sold shoddy merchandise……Oh wait, they do.

  40. 40 Boss Hawg Jul 30th, 2011 at 6:57 am

    @ Michael…

    I feel for ya…Wow 300 degree oil in an air cooled aluminum engine under normal operating conditions…I don’t recall seeing a more impressive and intelligent post to the contrary regarding an article such as this…Enjoy….and please don’t let your under garments get any wetter now…oh that 300 degree oil must be hot hot hot.

    I will be in Vegas this Sunday through Friday if you want to shoot some “Craps” with me and a couple pretty ladies? Second thought…never mind…STFU!

    @ miteychopperbiker..ask around…there are indeed a few that do know me. Been going to Bikeweek since ’77 and have owned from pan heads, to shovel heads to EVOs to TCs and a couple TPE 124ci. Heat/oil temps have never really been the issue till the TC.

    Of course the two of you can always email me from my site or put your real names and websites posted here as hot links in your name and not be phantom posters and posers. Please tell us more about yourselves. If either or both you are ever here in the SE for Bikeweek, Biketoberfest, or Thunderbeach and I will be pleased to have a beer with ya..we always have warm welcomes here in the south. Yes if you don’t like me today, you sure as hell won’t tomorrow.

    Boss Hawg

  41. 41 MotoXcycle Jul 30th, 2011 at 7:19 am

    We`re usually freezing our asses off here in Montreal, nothing beats a hot bike when riding in November at close to sub-zero temperatures!

  42. 42 Mike Tomas Kiwi Indian MC Co Jul 30th, 2011 at 8:18 am

    Bert Baker for President. President of Driveline. He gets my vote. Go Bert!!!

  43. 43 Good for you "victory rider" Jul 30th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    You bought a high tech bike………..that’s so ugly, few would ever allow themselves to be caught dead on one. Hey, I liked the Jetsons too growing up, but I wouldn’t want a motorcycle that looks like something little Elroy designed.

  44. 44 Billy B Jul 30th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Anyone buying a Harley must know it is gonna be way hot and break down often – they have been pos for as long as I can remember – the HD sheep trying to be tough guys will keep buying them tho……
    they don’t have the balls to buy a good reliable bike – someone might call it a rice burner and not thing they are big boys….

  45. 45 hardcore harris Jul 30th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    All this balling around about heat and defective parts is a bunch of crap. I ride and 07 Night Train thats 107 inch and have no problems at all. I am a mechnic that works on pretty much anything. You people whine at HD for bad trannys, what about other mfgs. I have been working on Ford super dutys that the last two diesel engines, the 6.0 and 6.4 liter are total junk pieces of sh*t. I have not heard of any one sueing Ford or IH for this junk they sell. Like a lot of other posts dont buy an air cooled bike and complain about heat. I have riden all kinds of bike and they make heat, what sue them all?

  46. 46 1550tc Jul 30th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Boss H i agree anything above 95 you needs some kind of oil cooler especially down south or hi temp areas

    Bob Wood probably has the best product for these bikes

    why guys spend so much on these bikes and big inch motors and dont buy oil coolers is just ???? to me…typical hd owners i guess…..its all about looks and they hate the look of oil coolers……then they wine about high oil temps

    personally my softail with a strong 95 with 20-50oil , cooler buel plugs , and with the proper fuel air ratio, even in sturgis in traffic seldom sees more than 225

    if hd wants to play with the big engine jap and British bikes 1800-2000cc plus bikes they will have to get some kind cooling on the future engines ASAP

  47. 47 Toby Jul 30th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    hardcore harris RE the Ford Diesels said “I have not heard of any one suing Ford or IH for this junk they sell.”

    You are kidding right? The Ford Powerstroke diesel issue is is one of the largest class action suits in the country. Google it and you will get a couple of thousand hits. It has been in their annual report listed as a significant future liability for the last eight years. Ford is also suing IH for defective parts ($40 in parts which require $4,000 in labor to fix) for this fiasco.

    You are correct, they are crap, but should we not hold HD to the same standard as Ford when it comes to reliably engineered parts (i.e transmission)?

  48. 48 miteychopperbiker Jul 30th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    @boss. Wow, maybe Michael has a point. why do I need to ask about who you are? who gives a hoot! opinions are opinions. you have initiated a condescending post toward Michael. we all differ in opinion and experience. calling me a poser in my opinion is an adversarial offensive statement. People should not make statements or suppositions about others that they know nothing about. I made an opposite point contrary to yours as others have. Accept it and move on. It appears that you thrive on expanding on, possibly joining, (by your request), and creating adversity based on your request of Cyril to supply the law firm’s name and additional information about the lawsuit so you may report to the NHSTA. Since I do not know you I must analyze your words and draw conclusion based on statements that you thrive on creating counterpoint. I accept and respect your opinions and experiences as stated. Does not mean that I have to agree. can u accept that we all have opinions in this blog concerning this and all topics and move on? this blog is here for people to espouse experiences and opinions to help others. enough said. now the answers: I have been riding since 1973. harley rider since late 90’s. numerous metric and HD models, (totaling five models in the garage at once at one point in my life), including ownership of several TC’s, qualified to elaborate on heat issue. Have experienced first hand. heat, yes. slightly unbearable occasionally. only slightly unbearable example: on Main street, DB, on a 95 degree day in bike to bike traffic enroute to Boot Hill. (short inconvienence). been to many daytona BW’s but don’t know what thunder beach is. will google and see if it is worth the trip. i don’t drink beer anymore, only the hard stuff. riding through Vegas? should be hot as a mutha. That is apparently Michael’s stomping grounds between TX and Cali. Maybe he will tilt one with you if you haven’t pissed him off to much….maybe he will put detrimental comments aside and you will his so you two can make nice nice. after all, we are all supposed to be brothers with a common interest and love of motorcycles. I spend time in Vegas. Love the action. Have a vacation pad at the Veer Tower next to Cosmopolitan in City Center. As far as meeting you, or posting on your site with an email address is concerned, thanks for the invite but must decline: for personal safety reasons, I don’t arrange meetings with people I do not know or have never met unless they have been thoroughly vented. Only meet random strangers at impromptu events that don’t know me. (bike weeks, etc). Protects myself, my family and my business interests from the wackos of the world that want to achieve financial gain through potential nefarious extortion activities. I travel under the radar and anonomously for safety sake only engaging my inner circle of business associates and friends. Being new on this blog, it is now evaluation time. Based on distasteful comments, I may decide to opt out of my participation in this Blog and not tell any of my successful, influencial well healed friends about it – which potentially hurts Cyril. they may wanna buy a bike or two from him. Hope you can lighten up a little man. Maybe apologize for the poser statement toward me? Or is that asking too much? Peace out

  49. 49 fuji Jul 30th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    From the oast

    Harley-Davidson Recalls 2006-2007 Sportsters for Exhaust Hazard
    Harley-Davidson has issued a recall of certain 2006-2007 Sportster XL1200L and Sportster XL1200N motorcycles.

    Certain motorcycles were built with a condition whereby the pant leg of some riders can have direct contact with the exhaust pipe. This condition could cause the pant leg to char or burn, which could lead to the possibility of injury to the rider.

    18784 units are affected.

  50. 50 Ax Jul 30th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Interesting how many people demand that Harley keep supplying them with a subpar product. Air-cooled engines DO NOT have to run hot. If any of these newbies were old enough to remember the Evo, they’d know that. They apparently aren’t even old enough to remember the five-speed transmission, which proved that Harley could manufacture a decent one.

  51. 51 Road Toad Jul 31st, 2011 at 8:50 am

    All air cooled are hot, water cooled – somewhat less. Owned near all brands since I was 14. You want to ride cool, get a cage or a Beemer…. You want to ride bikes – ride what you like, quit whining and ride. Want to ride a Harley and whine – you’re a RUB, go back to the Starbuck’s or your local internet cafe.If you ride in shorts and flip flops, you evidently have NOT laid one down and You my friend get waht YOU deserve!

  52. 52 Boss Hawg Jul 31st, 2011 at 8:53 am

    @ miteychopperbiker

    Its all good on my end. Thanks for the rant.

    Hope you stay in here and keep posting…but as you know there are some very objective opinions here.

    We can’t be everything to everybody.

    Apologies given on my end! Peace Brother…And I mean that…same for Michael.


    Boss Hawg

  53. 53 Billy B Jul 31st, 2011 at 10:02 am

    As far as Victory goes – I am looking at them very seriously. One guy here said they are ugly – the Vision is definately “different” looking and a little to futuristic for me…..but man, Those new Cross Roads and Cross Country bikes are flat out Beautiful and have all the new technology of the Asian bikes but they are made right here in the USA. Harley is gonna get hurt by Victory – maybe it will wake them up to start making a new modern 20th century motor! HDs still have chain driven primary, push rods and only 2 valves per cylinder……19th century pos.

  54. 54 Road Toad Jul 31st, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Well, IMHO – no bike manufacturer can claim “made in the USA” anymore, Harley, Victory, nor Boss Hogg bikes, and yes, even Indian. Strip one down and see where all the parts are made, japan, Germany, USA. May be manufacturered here but not true to the statement “Made In The USA”. Also, I don’t think Victory hurt Harley – Harley hurt themselves, and of course the Federal Government didn’t help matters any either….

  55. 55 morpion Jul 31st, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    why these four stupids bikers ride harley-davidson,,the should go with jap copy,,,,,,,,,,,,

  56. 56 morpion Jul 31st, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    why these four stupids bikers are riding h-d,,,,they should go with jap copy if they are not happy with h-d

  57. 57 Michael Jul 31st, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Oh, man… I take a break from pulling off the throttle cable that snapped yesterday to check in on my favorite news site -see if anybody posted some relevance regarding this lawsuit- and what do I find? More posts from the Hawg talking his line and calling folks posers. I honestly don’t know why I expected different. Well Boss, you got me dead to rights. I’ve been riding since I was 13 and I’ve never been to a rally or a “biker” theme party. Shoot, I don’t even have a single Harley tee to back up my cred. No website or any pics of myself hugged up with some skin at a saloon to post on it if I did have one. I don’t even have a cage to plaster with some really keen HD stickers… just a Fat Boy and Wide Glide with a busted throttle cable, LOL.

    Oh yeah, just clarify on my last post, if anybody cares, the readout on my Wide Glides dipstick just *flashes* after it reads in the high 280’s. I’m sure it keeps creeping up after that -but saying 300 degrees is just my “guesstimate”.

    BTW, anybody here know if Barnett warranties their cables after 9 months?

  58. 58 fuji Jul 31st, 2011 at 8:26 pm


    If I “read” your statement correctly …..I’m slow and old. LOL. I agree with you.

    That’s exactly what we are talking about. Someone stupid enough to ride/drive or own a product that doesn’t meet the quality or safety standards of the industry. Right?

    If a product doesn’t meet safety standards that company or organization should be held accountable.

    That’s why we have attorneys and courts to help protect people……even though we don’t like them.

  59. 59 Englishman Aug 1st, 2011 at 7:44 am

    If I were the conspiracy theory type, I’d expect this kind of thing to come along so The Factory could justify going to water cooling.

    But I’m not.

  60. 60 morpion Aug 1st, 2011 at 9:50 am

    i hope the next one wont sue harley-davidson because the idle is too high with injection t.c.

  61. 61 dragon Aug 1st, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    all i can say is that if my Harley had all the factory stuff still on it i would not ride it

  62. 62 Jason Aug 1st, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    To all of you that dont know the full facts about Mcdonalds coffee( as I didnt), I would suggest you take a look at this link, or even google Mcdonalds coffe burns, and take a look at the images for yourself. How many people knew this lady was sitting in a car as a passenger, parked, And was burned while removing the lid to add sugar and cream? Or that Mcdonalds had almost a thousand previous cases of incidents like this? Or lastly, they refused the offer from this ladies family of I belive it was $7000 to help defray the medical cost of this injury. Its funny how 99% of Americans know and realize we are getting bent over and fucked bu these greedy corporations and yet some of you drink the Kool Aid because this company is H-D. Guess what? They could care less, Now go buy a t-shirt.

  63. 63 Jason Aug 1st, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Sorry, link didnt work you will have to copy and paste. This documentary is a trip, starts off with people on the street being asked if they remember this, everybody’s like, oh yea, greedy bitch looking to get paid. Then they show them the picture..

  64. 64 henry Aug 1st, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Next H-D will get sued because bikes are falling on top of the “bikers” when making a complete stop. “Bikers” shouldnt have to put their feet down when making a complete stop. Ooops, did a open a can?

  65. 65 Lugnut Aug 1st, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    All of them are hot. But as far as running hotter, didn’t happen until the EPA stuck their busy-body a$$ in the efi and mandated air-fuel mixtures and placed limits on how much they could be changed and packed the pipes with catalytics.

    Go sue the EPA for climbing onto the bike with you. HD is just following the big old federal governments (and CARB) orders.

    As far as I can see, you have to spend about $2,000 extra on each new Harley for a set of pipes and a Thundermax to make it run right and not set the grass on fire as you ride by. Made these mods on a 2007 110 Screaming Eagle recently – now cool as any 80 cu. Evo (which will still burn your leg if you keep insisting on wearing those jorts while riding).

  66. 66 miteychopperbiker Aug 2nd, 2011 at 8:39 am

    @boss…niiicccceeeee! Speaks volumes about you brother. Thank you for the response.
    Peace out.

  67. 67 Stromer Aug 3rd, 2011 at 7:55 am

    What? Sue Happy folks … never responsible for thier dumb ass actions! An air-cooler engine IS HOT!!! Get these wanabees out of our culture! Go ride a Vespa!!!

  68. 68 morpion Aug 4th, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    or a lambretta,,,,

  69. 69 D Clasen Aug 8th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    just my opinion Jul 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am -I don’t agree with this action at all. First is the fact that these bikes are purchased by people that for the most part know they are built using 1950 technology. If they wanted a bike that has all the latest and greatest technology they would have bought a Honda.
    I don’t know why people who don’t have an understanding of anything should be allowed to post. Its an air cooled engine that the EPA requires to run very lean so it runs even hotter. Any HONDA air-cooled would be in the same situation.

    I find it interesting firms like MotoGuzzi looked at heat pipe tech to minimize this. But, even BMW will give up on the air cooled.

    So, if this class action can also sue the State of California I think this would only be fair as the stinking state of California is sufficiently responsible for the engine running hotter.

  70. 70 Boss Hawg Aug 8th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Gotta love it…doesn’t even know temps and comes back for more more more. Stop the whining, broke it now get a new one and while at it STFU…no one wants to hear it anyways, well maybe your old lady!

    It is what it is and that it will be…hot hot hot.

    Boss Hawg

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Cyril Huze